Track Alignment question
04-03-2014, 08:55 PM
#1
Drifting
Thread Starter
Track Alignment question
The last time out at the track, I had a Pfadt track alignment on the car. The car had a bad push. It was definitely not hooking in the front like it had previously. I gave the specs to the alignment guy. When he was done, he gave me a print out of the final positions. It wasn't exactly Pfadt but it was very close. My question is, what is your favorite track setup.
The front was 2.2 camber with 8 caster
the rear was 1.5 camber with -1/8 toe
When the car did well on the track, rear toe was 0. Maybe I just like it a little loose. But it never felt loose. The front always turned in nicely.
I have a front splitter that was on the car when it was good. I added side skirts just before the trip that was not good.
The front was 2.2 camber with 8 caster
the rear was 1.5 camber with -1/8 toe
When the car did well on the track, rear toe was 0. Maybe I just like it a little loose. But it never felt loose. The front always turned in nicely.
I have a front splitter that was on the car when it was good. I added side skirts just before the trip that was not good.
04-04-2014, 12:08 AM
#3
Tech Contributor
Member Since: Oct 1999
Location: Charlotte, NC (formerly Endicott, NY)
Posts: 40,078
Received 8,919 Likes
on
5,328 Posts
Pfadt used negative to indicate toe in while most machines read positive for toe in. That has led to some confusion and even Pfadt updated their chart with a statement at the top of the chart that says Toe In is negative. However, it is easy to miss the statement.
You don't say what your toe settings for the front were but you may want to determine whether you have toe in or toe out where you are supposed to have them. Most people run toe in at the rear and you have -1/8 toe which is toe out. That seems like it would make the car a little twitchy going into corners. What is your front toe? I don't know how all this fits into a severe push but you really should make sure your alignment is what you paid to get.
Bill
You don't say what your toe settings for the front were but you may want to determine whether you have toe in or toe out where you are supposed to have them. Most people run toe in at the rear and you have -1/8 toe which is toe out. That seems like it would make the car a little twitchy going into corners. What is your front toe? I don't know how all this fits into a severe push but you really should make sure your alignment is what you paid to get.
Bill
04-04-2014, 07:56 AM
#4
Burning Brakes
Last year I had a similar problem after an alignment. A SEVERE push. Turns out the big dollar, laser guided alignment machine that showed a 1/16" toe in on the final report was actually 1 1/4". I only realized when I corded a brand new R6 that day and we threw a set of tape measures on it at the track.
Some of these new Bluetooth alignment machines get a little screwy if they lose a signal back to the base during an alignment.
Some of these new Bluetooth alignment machines get a little screwy if they lose a signal back to the base during an alignment.
04-04-2014, 05:21 PM
#5
Drifting
Thread Starter
Pfadt used negative to indicate toe in while most machines read positive for toe in. That has led to some confusion and even Pfadt updated their chart with a statement at the top of the chart that says Toe In is negative. However, it is easy to miss the statement.
You don't say what your toe settings for the front were but you may want to determine whether you have toe in or toe out where you are supposed to have them. Most people run toe in at the rear and you have -1/8 toe which is toe out. That seems like it would make the car a little twitchy going into corners. What is your front toe? I don't know how all this fits into a severe push but you really should make sure your alignment is what you paid to get.
Bill
You don't say what your toe settings for the front were but you may want to determine whether you have toe in or toe out where you are supposed to have them. Most people run toe in at the rear and you have -1/8 toe which is toe out. That seems like it would make the car a little twitchy going into corners. What is your front toe? I don't know how all this fits into a severe push but you really should make sure your alignment is what you paid to get.
Bill
I believe my toe in was 1/16". If the alignment mechanic was thinking negative is toe out then, that's where that awlful push came from. And if his machine was off like hi volts machine was, I'm surprised I didn't drive in little circles all day. Probably been good for nascar
My next trip will have Pfadt urethane bushing kit, and T1 sway bars. All that goes on tomorrow.
Based on the majority trackers, where should I be for a dedicated track car.
Any of you going to VIR with Track Daze in May?
Thanks
Roger
Last edited by rabrooks; 04-04-2014 at 05:30 PM.
04-04-2014, 05:33 PM
#6
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Dec 2006
Location: Phoenix Arizona
Posts: 7,251
Likes: 0
Received 14 Likes
on
14 Posts
Yeah that will mess things up. I expect that is where my problem was. the previous time on the track, the car turned in ok with a street setup. then it pushed after I thought I had a better track setup. All the setups ran Conti race tires and rubber bushings.
I believe my toe in was 1/16". If the alignment mechanic was thinking negative is toe out then, that's where that awlful push came from. And if his machine was off like hi volts machine was, I'm surprised I didn't drive in little circles all day. Probably been good for nascar
My next trip will have Pfadt urethane bushing kit, and T1 sway bars. All that goes on tomorrow.
Based on the majority trackers, where should I be for a dedicated track car.
Any of you going to VIR with Track Daze in May?
Thanks
Roger
I believe my toe in was 1/16". If the alignment mechanic was thinking negative is toe out then, that's where that awlful push came from. And if his machine was off like hi volts machine was, I'm surprised I didn't drive in little circles all day. Probably been good for nascar
My next trip will have Pfadt urethane bushing kit, and T1 sway bars. All that goes on tomorrow.
Based on the majority trackers, where should I be for a dedicated track car.
Any of you going to VIR with Track Daze in May?
Thanks
Roger
1/4 out in the front and 1/4 in in the back and -2.0 camber front and 1.5 - cam rear. with slicks, she will corner like a formula car
04-04-2014, 11:17 PM
#9
Tech Contributor
Member Since: Oct 1999
Location: Charlotte, NC (formerly Endicott, NY)
Posts: 40,078
Received 8,919 Likes
on
5,328 Posts
1/4 rear toe in will make the car corner well on the track but if you drive the car on the street it will eat tires. Everything is a trade off.
Bill
Bill
04-04-2014, 11:25 PM
#10
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Dec 2006
Location: Phoenix Arizona
Posts: 7,251
Likes: 0
Received 14 Likes
on
14 Posts
you da man! 
but i believe he did say track car 
fyi wife runs this alignment on her vette, eats front tires but rears last quite well, maybe 20 percent more wear but fronts... 75 percent more wear!
05-07-2014, 09:40 PM
#11
Instructor
Member Since: Oct 2012
Location: Pinehurst North Carolina
Posts: 222
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I drive a 2010 Z06 stock out of the box at VIR, (other than brakes, tires, wheels, seats and restraint harness) and my car handles like it is on rails. Any push or over steer is usually my fault, and not the car... 
I will not be at TrackDaze due to Insurance problems, but will be instructing at the 3 day SVT Cobra Club May 23-25. Then HOD, Chin, and NCM in June.
vz
I will not be at TrackDaze due to Insurance problems, but will be instructing at the 3 day SVT Cobra Club May 23-25. Then HOD, Chin, and NCM in June.vz
05-08-2014, 12:00 AM
#12
Race Director
Unless you have a long history with an alignment guy, I suggest a severe skepticism be brought with you to ANY shop that does Camrys & suvs all day long, I don't care how many blue tooth, laser, digital gizmos his rack has.
My old programming motto: garbage in = garbage out. I don't give a flying what his 4 color print out says.
My old programming motto: garbage in = garbage out. I don't give a flying what his 4 color print out says.
05-08-2014, 12:57 PM
#13
Push is a function of many things. Tires. Pressures. Aero. Wheel offset. Rake. Roll rates front and rear. Shock valving.
But in general front -3 camber. 7-8 caster. .2 toe out
Rear -1.5 camb, .2 toe in
Are very good baselines.
If you can stuff much more tire under the car especially front and get some weight out of the front you could add much more rear camber and youll get faster until you start getting wheelspin or a push again
But in general front -3 camber. 7-8 caster. .2 toe out
Rear -1.5 camb, .2 toe in
Are very good baselines.
If you can stuff much more tire under the car especially front and get some weight out of the front you could add much more rear camber and youll get faster until you start getting wheelspin or a push again