ABS question?
05-19-2014, 09:55 AM
#1
Racer
Thread Starter
ABS question?
Does that ABS system on a 2007 C6 base coupe just look at the wheel speed sensors? Or does the system look at brake fluid pressure also to activate the ABS system?
I had been doing HPDE with Hawk HP+ pads and Cooper Zeon RS3-S 300 wear rating. I just installed a new set of DBA 4000 T3 rotors and Hawk Blue pads and still on the Cooper tires.
I haven't done a HPDE yet, but while bedding in the rotors the ABS would activate very easily it seems. The blue pads do have more bite. I'm hoping things get better as I'll have more heat in the rotors and speed at the track.
I went with this setup because I still use street tires for HPDE and felt that the HP+ pads were getting to there fad limit.
Thanks for any impute.
I had been doing HPDE with Hawk HP+ pads and Cooper Zeon RS3-S 300 wear rating. I just installed a new set of DBA 4000 T3 rotors and Hawk Blue pads and still on the Cooper tires.
I haven't done a HPDE yet, but while bedding in the rotors the ABS would activate very easily it seems. The blue pads do have more bite. I'm hoping things get better as I'll have more heat in the rotors and speed at the track.
I went with this setup because I still use street tires for HPDE and felt that the HP+ pads were getting to there fad limit.
Thanks for any impute.
05-19-2014, 11:54 AM
#2
Tech Contributor
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Location: Charlotte, NC (formerly Endicott, NY)
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Does that ABS system on a 2007 C6 base coupe just look at the wheel speed sensors? Or does the system look at brake fluid pressure also to activate the ABS system?
I had been doing HPDE with Hawk HP+ pads and Cooper Zeon RS3-S 300 wear rating. I just installed a new set of DBA 4000 T3 rotors and Hawk Blue pads and still on the Cooper tires.
I haven't done a HPDE yet, but while bedding in the rotors the ABS would activate very easily it seems. The blue pads do have more bite. I'm hoping things get better as I'll have more heat in the rotors and speed at the track.
I went with this setup because I still use street tires for HPDE and felt that the HP+ pads were getting to there fad limit.
Thanks for any impute.
I had been doing HPDE with Hawk HP+ pads and Cooper Zeon RS3-S 300 wear rating. I just installed a new set of DBA 4000 T3 rotors and Hawk Blue pads and still on the Cooper tires.
I haven't done a HPDE yet, but while bedding in the rotors the ABS would activate very easily it seems. The blue pads do have more bite. I'm hoping things get better as I'll have more heat in the rotors and speed at the track.
I went with this setup because I still use street tires for HPDE and felt that the HP+ pads were getting to there fad limit.
Thanks for any impute.
When you use different tires and brake pads the system can over react since it isn't calibrated to that setup. It will still work but will tend to release or hold pressure at less than an optimum performance level for the tires you may have.
Bill
05-19-2014, 03:25 PM
#3
Racer
Thread Starter
It looks at the wheel speed sensors. It is a 4 channel system so it is able to modulate the brake pressure at each wheel individually. It was calibrated using the stock pads and tires. Braking is just like drag racing where a tire gets better grip if it is slipping a certain amount. The ABS looks for incipient lock up (turning too slow) and releases pressure at the wheel that is turning too slow or has already locked. If the wheel is turning too fast then it increases pressure (up to the amount provided by your foot) at that wheel to get to the appropriate slip calculated for the stock tires.
When you use different tires and brake pads the system can over react since it isn't calibrated to that setup. It will still work but will tend to release or hold pressure at less than an optimum performance level for the tires you may have.
Bill
When you use different tires and brake pads the system can over react since it isn't calibrated to that setup. It will still work but will tend to release or hold pressure at less than an optimum performance level for the tires you may have.
Bill
I'm guessing my ABS is activating due to the wheel speed decelerating faster than stock setup?
I hope my new setup works better than the HP+ pads. Doing HPDE2 at Summit point in June with NASA. I know I've a tendency to be to hard and fast with my initial braking Jabbing the pedal.
Nut behind the wheel still in training.
05-19-2014, 07:34 PM
#4
Race Director
Like Bill said, "The ABS looks for incipient lock up (turning too slow)..."
The ABS doesn't really look at the rate of speed change. "wheel speed decelerating faster than stock" won't have anything to do with activation of the ABS. ABS compares the speed of all 4 wheels to each other, and when one or more wheels are going much slower than the others (incipient lock up, as Bill said), then the ABS will release brake pressure to keep those wheels from locking up and skidding.
I believe those tires are just plain street tires, and you've got aggressive brake pads.
The contact patch of the tire is what allows the car to accelerate, brake, and turn - and your street tires don't have real sticky traction, and are much easier to bring to an incipient lock up condition than a nice sticky R-compound tire.
I think your new pads are just bringing those street tires to the point of skidding much more easily than the HP+ you had before.
You say: "I'm hoping things get better as I'll have more heat in the rotors and speed at the track".
I don't think it will get much better - maybe marginally as you heat up the tires and perhaps get them a little stickier, but mainly you've probably just got more brakes than tires.
That's not too bad - just be a little easier on the brakes, and don't worry, the ABS will do what it's designed to do to keep you from locking up the wheels and skidding the tires.
Bob
05-20-2014, 12:20 AM
#5
Pro
The C6 ABS does not work well with race rubber
The C5 system does so a popular mod is to swap in a C5 module and run it of a separate C5 ECU that reads the wheel sensors
You must have a good alternator to keep the system activated as the C5 ABS shuts down with voltage spikes
The C5 system does so a popular mod is to swap in a C5 module and run it of a separate C5 ECU that reads the wheel sensors
You must have a good alternator to keep the system activated as the C5 ABS shuts down with voltage spikes
05-20-2014, 06:49 AM
#6
Racer
Thread Starter
The C6 ABS does not work well with race rubber
The C5 system does so a popular mod is to swap in a C5 module and run it of a separate C5 ECU that reads the wheel sensors
You must have a good alternator to keep the system activated as the C5 ABS shuts down with voltage spikes
The C5 system does so a popular mod is to swap in a C5 module and run it of a separate C5 ECU that reads the wheel sensors
You must have a good alternator to keep the system activated as the C5 ABS shuts down with voltage spikes
05-20-2014, 07:12 AM
#7
Racer
Thread Starter
Hmmm....I don't think so!
Like Bill said, "The ABS looks for incipient lock up (turning too slow)..."
The ABS doesn't really look at the rate of speed change. "wheel speed decelerating faster than stock" won't have anything to do with activation of the ABS. ABS compares the speed of all 4 wheels to each other, and when one or more wheels are going much slower than the others (incipient lock up, as Bill said), then the ABS will release brake pressure to keep those wheels from locking up and skidding.
I believe those tires are just plain street tires, and you've got aggressive brake pads.
The contact patch of the tire is what allows the car to accelerate, brake, and turn - and your street tires don't have real sticky traction, and are much easier to bring to an incipient lock up condition than a nice sticky R-compound tire.
I think your new pads are just bringing those street tires to the point of skidding much more easily than the HP+ you had before.
You say: "I'm hoping things get better as I'll have more heat in the rotors and speed at the track".
I don't think it will get much better - maybe marginally as you heat up the tires and perhaps get them a little stickier, but mainly you've probably just got more brakes than tires.
That's not too bad - just be a little easier on the brakes, and don't worry, the ABS will do what it's designed to do to keep you from locking up the wheels and skidding the tires.
Bob
Like Bill said, "The ABS looks for incipient lock up (turning too slow)..."
The ABS doesn't really look at the rate of speed change. "wheel speed decelerating faster than stock" won't have anything to do with activation of the ABS. ABS compares the speed of all 4 wheels to each other, and when one or more wheels are going much slower than the others (incipient lock up, as Bill said), then the ABS will release brake pressure to keep those wheels from locking up and skidding.
I believe those tires are just plain street tires, and you've got aggressive brake pads.
The contact patch of the tire is what allows the car to accelerate, brake, and turn - and your street tires don't have real sticky traction, and are much easier to bring to an incipient lock up condition than a nice sticky R-compound tire.
I think your new pads are just bringing those street tires to the point of skidding much more easily than the HP+ you had before.
You say: "I'm hoping things get better as I'll have more heat in the rotors and speed at the track".
I don't think it will get much better - maybe marginally as you heat up the tires and perhaps get them a little stickier, but mainly you've probably just got more brakes than tires.
That's not too bad - just be a little easier on the brakes, and don't worry, the ABS will do what it's designed to do to keep you from locking up the wheels and skidding the tires.
Bob
I like having a little more brake than tire.
I've rode in cars with R-comps and it's amazing what they can do. I'm not ready yet for the sticky tires plus I drive to the tracks no trailers for me. I'm a budget driver
I like my Zeon RS3-S tires in the rain they do great and I got over 20K on my first set DD got 75K on her. Down the rode I'll upgrade to R888 and a better track pads, roll cage, race seats, 6 point harness, HANS. I'm going broke just thinking about what's down the rode
