rfn026

Here's an article I wrote about the FIA certification of historic race cars. This is a big deal in Europe. Not so much in the United States.

Richard Newton

63Corvette

Thanks richard. One reason "not so much here" is because of the COST!!!! The FIA and Europe in general seems to be a very "class" stratified society. they look on everything American as a "profit center. We would still have to pay transportation to Europe to race, AND Tony Parella's SVRA provides us Americans with 'BETTER' racing here anyway! BTW I looked for you at Indy, but didn't see you there?

rfn026

I didn't make it to Indy. I'm thinking I should have. I'll be there next year.

You're right about the cost. The FIA representative does come to the United States about once a year. It's still an expensive process though. I've known a couple of people who have gotten certified and they probably won't do it again.

They thought that being certified would open up the European market. It didn't. They felt the return on investment just wasn't there.

Tony is doing a great job with SVRA. He really want to reign in some of the insane modifications and technical creep that's taken place over the years. I'm starting to see an even larger gap between SVRA and HSR cars.

The folks in Europe wish they had an HSR. They feel they we have a place to run the highly modified historic cars and that's a good thing. "I'm sorry but your car is really not appropriate for our group here. You should consider HSR." We have a safety valve if you will. They don't have that in Europe.

Richard Newton

bosco022

I think it is great we have both an SVRA that is trying to hold the line and give those that have period correct cars a place to race competitively, and an HSR that allows more modern "interpretations" of classics. I like both.

I am building a tube frame version of an L88 type bodied C3 'Vert similar but not exact in looks to the Owens Corning cars. It will use a 327 ci small block chevy with early Brodix 23 degree aluminum cylinder heads. Engine dyno HP is 525, which is about right for mid 70's SBC that ran in Camel GT. It will have either a Jerico or T101 tranny and a three link coilover suspension. HSR stated that I would likely be allowed to compete in the class for early IMSA Camel GT AAGT/GTX types. Cars in those classes were Dekon Monza's, the tube frame Mustang II, tube Camaro's like Mo Carter's and Carl Shafer's and some of the Greenwood type cars

redvetracr

I have two words for you.....Peter Klutt

63Corvette

And I'll raise you the Duntov Motors cars

redvetracr

Sonny Adams and Jimmy Landrum will trump anything you got...ask Al who they are or were.

Ol Blue

Who maintain's Tony Parella's Corvettes? They sure look nice.

gbvette62

Duntov Motor Co.

gbvette62

Tony has a 1934 Chevrolet Indy car, a black 58 BP Corvette, a red 72 BP Corvette, and I think a former Wintson Cup Lumina or Monte Carlo.

He had the 34 Chevy, as well as the 58 and 72 Corvettes, registered for Indy. I only saw the 72 there, but I was often tied up with our cars.

Here's his 72, on Indy's front straight last week. The second picture is his 58, participating in the Watkins Glen street course reenactment a couple years ago, which is part of the annual US Vintage Grand Prix at The Glen.

C2Racer

My 63 was seriously out gunned by almost every other C2's at Indy. Not a 7" wheel or a wet sump in sight. But everyone was real nice to me? And I still had fun. Just told them to not be snobs when passing and at least wave......got quite a few waves.

63Corvette

Cummon Steve....you were faster than I was...................

C2Racer

We were running a race not many others understood.... But our cars are for non SVRA events too

gbvette62

Steve, I'm pretty sure you were quicker than the two cars I was there with too, Jim in his 65 and Bill in his 66.

DaveL82

So I have a question or two about sanctioning bodies for older cars and is it worth moving forward with my c3 corvette to run in some historic events.

First off my car has no race history so I'm sure that cuts if from a number of events. My initial goal was to build a track day car but the further I move into it I'm thinking could I run this in any historic events. This or buy an older formula continental but that's another story.

I've had my 80 C3 since 1984.
-have a rear roll bar welded in but need to complete a cage
-need to add fuel cell
-front end comes off with pins and is flared
-fixed headlights
-dewitts aluminum rad and fans-
- transverse front leaf (would prefer coilovers)
-VBP front control arms for spring above
-ZZ4 crate engine
- older doug nash 5 speed but can change to 4 speed
- gutted interior
- process of seperating rear body section from center so I can remove with pins along with going to lexan big rear glass
- brakes are willwoods but could go back to stock type with sleeves if needed
-side pipes
The rear is where it could get messy
- now have upper and lower control arm rear suspension with slip type axles.
-coilovers on rear with fabricated subframe for shocks and upper a arms
- Do go back to trailing arm suspension or just keep building it and try to find a place to run?
- 17 x 10 front and 18 x 12 CCW 3 piece wheels but could go back to 15's if needed

63Corvette

Hi Dave,
WORTH IT? Only you can answer that question. Vintage racing is the fastest growing form of motorsport. I have been Vintage racing my 63 Z06 since the Dallas Grand Prix (F1) in July 1984, so for ME, it is definitely Worth it! Here is the SVRA (largest/best sanctioning organization) website for car specific information;
http://www.svra.com/wp-content/uploa...e_C3_68-72.pdf
Call Ray Snowdon for answers to questions, but you can download your "Racecar Certification Form" off the SVRA homepage. Good luck, and let us know how it goes

DaveL82

Garrett, Thanks for the contact info. I used the link and also found specs for later C3 corvettes which lucky for me allows a roller cam. Seems I have to use original frame and transverse leave spring or jump big time into GTO/GT1 for tube frame cars.

63Corvette

Yep!!! "Wings and slicks class....................."

gbvette62

Your car does not need a race history, to compete in SVRA, or with most vintage organizations. You'll find cars with a long race history, racing with the SVRA, as well as cars built yesterday.

The SVRA does have their Medallion program, to honor cars with race history, dating back to 72 or earlier. Receiving an SVRA Medallion, doesn't effect a car's eligibility to compete positively or negatively, it's just a means to acknowledge cars with a true race history. The 64, 65 & 66 BP Corvettes, as well as the 67 T/A Camaro, that I normally crew on, are all Medallion cars.

As a 1980, your car would fall into SVRA Group 10, and run with GTO/GT1 tube frame cars, with or without the mods you've made.

The SVRA bases their classes on various era SCCA GCR's. Generally, 63-72 Corvettes, compete in Group 6, as long as they conform to the 1972 GCR. Group 6 limits Corvettes to 15x10 wheels, slight flares, and stock Corvette brakes calipers. There are some cars in Group 6, with one piece noses, trick suspension, and other heavy mods, that push the spirit of the rules, if not the letter of them. Some of the cars out of Duntov Motors, and Peter Klutt's (of Legendary Motorcars & Dream Car Garage) 69, certainly stretch the rules, but for the most part, the large majority of cars in Group 6 follow the rules fairly closely.

In 1973, the GCR was changed to allow more modifications, to cars racing in the SCCA. This was as a result of competition from IMSA, and their more liberal rules package. The 73 up GCR allowed the use of Greenwood type body panels, aftermarket brakes, and other mods, not previously allowed under the 72 GCR. All Corvettes built after 72, and 72 and earlier Corvettes, with newer bodywork, all have to follow the 73 up GCR, and race in Group 10.

SVRA race groups, are run very much like SCCA races. Just like the SCCA, where you have a number of different class cars all competing in the same race, SVRA race groups, are also made up of different classes. Group 10 is made up of cars competing in SCCA post 72 AP & BP; SCCA T/A & GT1; IMSA GTO, AAGT & GTU; SCCA Can Am & ASR; and NASCAR Busch/Cup/Nationwide cars.

With a full cage, a fuel cell, "period correct" aftermarket calipers, a 4 speed (any 4 speed, it doesn't have to be a Corvette production piece) and 15x10 wheels, you would likely compete in SVRA Group 10 "BP". Your suspension mods, should be alright, as suspension in Group 10 is pretty much wide open, as long as the track and wheelbase, remain stock.

With your car, you'd be on track with Cup cars, tube frame GTO and Trans-Am cars, and old McLaren Can-Am cars, but you'd actually be competing with other BP cars. You may not be able to compete for the overall win, but you would still race for a class win, just like in the SCCA.

Some people think that vintage racing is just a parade of old race cars, this is hardly the case. Car to car contact is frowned upon, and even "2 tires off", usually requires a stop on pit road, but that doesn't mean that there isn't some real hard racing, going on at most vintage races.

Go back and check the 2 links below, covering the rules related to 73-82 Corvettes, and the overview of Group 10 and the Group 10 car eligibility.

http://www.svra.com/wp-content/uploa...e_C3_73-82.pdf

http://www.svra.com/wp-content/uploa...up_10_1213.pdf

Besides the SVRA, there are a number of other vintage sanctioning bodies. The CVAR races at Hallett and Texas World Speedway. I'm not familiar with their rules, but I'm sure you can find out more at their website www.corinthianvintagerace.com.

Is vintage racing "worth it", as Garrett said, only you can decide that, but personally, I love it and look forward to every event I can get to. And I just go to take pictures, and crew you a couple friends of mine, I don't even actually race!

C2Racer

I am a Group Rep in CVAR and our rules follow the 72 GCR and PCS pretty closely. A CVAR car is typically not competitive in SVRA because of this. HMSA would be the group we are closest to in rules and therefore we typically have the most members of any clubs outside of California at Monterey each year. Including Garrett's beautiful Z06!

Steve