GS_DAN

Hey Guys,

Purchased a 2010 Grand Sport 6spd a couple of weeks ago and I just recently signed up for the CHIN Motorsports HPDE at Texas World Speedway Aug 2-3.

My car is currently in stock configuration +Halltech MF103.

I've been scouring this subforum reading about brake pads.. I can get HAWK HP Plus for a really great deal, but from what i've read they fade and would hate to go into a turn at 80+ with no brakes. I would love to do the Carbotech XP10 fr and XP8 rear but that setup is well over $500.

I don't want to break the bank on pads. OE ones currently have about 20k on them. I already plan on swapping the fluid to DOT 4 for clutch and brakes, as well as a fresh oil change.

SO my question is A) Run the stock pads for 1 HPDE B) Get the HP Plus for hardly anything or C) Spend the extra dough on a better pad.

I know this has been beaten to death but just need a little guidance.

My second concern is heat. This is Texas and August. Ambient air temp should be around low to mid 90s. Other than the coolers that come with the car (Oil, Diff, PS), what would you recommend to help keep the car cool? Just monitor and pull off when needed?

Thanks for some input guys.

UrbanKnight

Stay stock pads for now, make sure you have at least 50% pad life left and you should be fine

Put in good fluid (RBF600, SRF, etc)

Go enjoy yourself... You don't need anything "better" for your first outing

Bill Dearborn

I tend to agree. However, you need to check the stock pads for wear and the only way you can do that is by pulling padlets out of the calipers or if you can't remove the pad guide pins by removing the caliper and taking the padlets out that way. For some reason the padlets tend to taper as they wear. They taper from side to side and from top to bottom. That means that visually looking at the padlets in the caliper one may look like it has plenty of meat on it but when you pull it out the bottom is very thin. The tapering seems to vary by location in the caliper and I (and others) have moved pads around in the caliper to extend wear. If the pads are worn I recommend a set of HP+ padlets or the one piece version if you want. They are a step up from the HPS and a little more brake than a novice needs but they are usable on the street although they dust quite a bit and will squeal like hell. Another option are the Cobalt CRS one piece pads but a full set will put a large dent in the wallet. I really liked using those pads in my Z06 but because of cost I usually ran the HP+ and suffered through their limitations when driving at an advanced level.

When I got my Z06 it had 13K miles and the original pads which were not worn all that badly. There was probably 60% pad life left. After one track day driving in the Instructor group the pads were still usable on the street but wouldn't have made it through another track day. A buddy loaned me his worn spare HP+ pads. They did great and actually got me through 2 more days although they looked quite badly worn.

Bill

GS_DAN

Thanks for the advice. I will check the stock padlets when I get a chance. My biggest fear of running the hp+ is coming off a 100mph turn and having no brakes

l8te apx

of warning....If in doubt put on new OEM pads, relax, enjoy the day and you will be a lot more tuned into the fun of a day on track....then look to upgrading to track pads. Track pads are usually squeaky and dusty....but I love em.

www.hookedondriving.com

Corvee

I ran Hawk HP+ for a couple of seasons (DE's) and never had issues with fade. As mentioned the Cobalts are nice pads but expensive. You can also go with the DTC 60 or 70's but that is way overkill at your level on street tires.

GS_DAN

Thanks for all the advice guys. Im on nitto invos with about 75% life in them. based on what responses and multiple searches I'm going to run the hawk hp+ for now. Im a novice and on street tires I don't think I'll be able to take full advantage of better track pads. See you in August corvee!

Bill Dearborn

You stand a much better chance of that happening with HPS. The HP+ are street/track pads. As I said before I used them on my z06 both with street tires and slicks. They don't stand up well to advanced level driving where we are coming into turns 20 or 30 mph faster than novices and abusing the brakes much harder. They do have an 800 degree capability whereas the stock pads and HPSs are more in the 500 to 600 degree range. When you overheat the HP+ pads they tend to smear on the rotor and the next time you go on track you get a lot of brake thumping when you hit the pedal. Then you just have to live through it.

Make sure you flush your brake fluid with a good high temp racing fluid and that will reduce the chance of boiling the brake fluid.

Even stock pads can overheat and boil an old water soaked DOT 3 fluid. If you want a low cost DOT3 with a 500 degree dry boiling point then try Ford Super Duty fluid. It is easily available at Ford dealerships and you can get 6 cans at a reasonable price. Flush the fluid a few days before the event and you will have a very good fluid in the lines and calipers. The Ford fluid has long been known as the best kept secret in grassroots motor racing. It used to be even better with a 550 deg dry boiling point a few years ago.

Bill

FASTFATBOY

This fluid is cheaper and has a higher boiling point at 536*.


I would stay on the stock pads as long as they are good, keep in mind the heat of August wiln make them last less time than if you went in Jan.

Drink LOTS of water, being on track...especially your first few times is high stress.

2 bottles of water, 1 bottle of Gatorade....repeat. You let your **** turn yellow and you can't catch up.

I always pit close to the pisser lol.

speedwaywhite

I concur on the HP+ pads, they should do the deed, I would also recommend Mobil 1 15W50.

Dan H.

From one Dan to another, welcome to the addiction!

I just ran my first HDPE 2 months ago. I am prepping today for a three day event at Watkins Glen next weekend. And guess what, I'm signed up for Lime Rock in August. Yes, it happens that quickly!

Anywho, the guys on this forum are super knowledgeable, listen to them and you'll have a blast.

I kept my stock OE pads on for my first weekend. My car is a 17k mile C5 Z06. My pads were ok by the end of the weekend to drive home with, but like what someone else said, they would not have lasted another track day.

Bleed your brakes with some good fluid. I used Motul RFB 600. Most pre tech sheets state you must change the fluid prior to the event anyway. I bought to motive power bleeder, expensive for what it is, yes. Gets the job done quickly and with no mess, yes.

My instructor said to change to 15W-50 to avoid excessive oil temperatures. I've read that a few times on this forum. This is what I have switched to for the Glen next weekend. My car is an LS6, so I don't know how that compares to your motor.

My car had the original tires which were 12 years old. I had replaced these with tires better suited for track and street. Your car is new so this probably isn't a concern.

Most important peice of advice would be, go into it open minded and be ready to learn. Listen to your instructor and check any ego at the door. These cars are capable of WAY more than anyone uses them on the street. The instructors will make you better!

Heres the posts of advice I had received and I thought it had me well prepared for the event. Everything down to what to bring
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/auto...imidating.html

Then here is the Thread from when I got back from my first event. My favorite comment here is "Better Jet Hot coat that Visa/Mastercard LOL, it's about to see some heat."This couldn't be more true, get ready!!!
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/auto...track-day.html

k24556

This is my 4th year doing HPDE's and my current brake pads are Raybestos ST-47's. I started with Hawk HP+ and they gave me good service. I tried a set of Carbonne Lorraine, CL6's but after one day, I hid them and then buried them in a deep hole in the back yard so no one would ever find them and think about using them.

Early this year I bought a set of Carbotech XP10/XP8 but when I got them and read the bedding procedure, I put them up for sale. The recommended bedding is on track and you basically lose a session to perform their recommended bedding. So I never tried them and can't give the glowing recommendation others give.I wasn't going to give up a valuable session and **** of the other drivers just to bed in brakes.

I was at Randall Race Parts (Mooresville, NC) for another reason and the guy that runs the place told me about the ST-47's. I bought a set and have been happy with their performance. I've done 8 days at VIR and two at Sebring and the set is about 70% gone and time for them to become spares. BTW a set of ST-47's is about half the cost of the Carbotechs and a little over half the cost of HP+'s.

My skill level is intermediate-solo and I'm keeping with the pack in that group so when I come off the track the brake rotors are really hot, and I'm burning up the dust boots on the calipers, so I know I'm braking much much harder than I was when I started. I always do a 10 minute cooldown with no braking on the roads around the track, so I'm smoking the dust boots on track. I was starting to do that last year, and more so this year, so I may one of those guys that is harder on brakes.

From a pad standpoint, the previous posters are spot-on. Your first few days on the track you won't challenge your brakes... But having good fresh DOT4 fluid (I use ATE) is probably more important than the pad you select.

By your third year you learn the real importance of that middle pedal and all that is connected to it to give you "WHOA MULE!!!!".

Regarding oil if you ask GM they will say 5w-30 Mobil 1. Col Dave says that 5W-30 loses its lubricating properties as you get to 280F. You shouldn't see it your first year or so, and 5W30 should be OK. After that you will see higher temperatures. Then you need to go to 15W-50 because it maintains its lubricating properties at the high track temps. The trade off is probably cold starts and getting the right lubrication on a cold close-clearance engine as the LS's happen to be.

Adam@Amp'dAutosport.com

Next time go for the pre bed option on the carbotech's.

k24556

If offered as a free service then, maybe, but part of the bedding usually involves the rotors themselves. The money would be better spent on seat time IMHO, especially for someone entering the game.

Please don't mistake this for advocating seat time is more important than safety. Entry-level drivers have the same need for stopping reliability, and not as much need for excess stopping capability. As you progress, you will know when you are getting past the capability of the respective brake consumables.

C6psi

I agree with the general consensus that the stock pads will be fine for the first few events if there is adequate pad left. My first year doing HPDE events were driven on my Z-51 brakes and pads with just a Motul 600 fluid change. My second year was when I started to change the brake setup. Careful with going too aggressive on your pads as they are likely to be noisy and work in an abrasive while daily driving stripping off the pad transfer layer because they are below their temp operating range.

As far as fluid temps I did not experience any cooling issues until I started modifying the engine heavily.

I think you are set with the car stock, minus the brake fluid change, to go out and experience and learn the capabilities of the car.

Greg00Coupe

I'm just a novice too but my opinion and how can I be wrong is....... its how hard you drive the car into the corners. Last year I was running a C6 GS and all my instructors had me drive it hard into the corners....making one realize brakes are the most important item on the car. My brakes where cooking.

After Spring Mountain where Ron Fellows teaches brake going in and then let off.....this year my brakes are thanking me. It's all about balance.

Also I don't run all hot laps and never out more then 20 minutes. Run 3 or 4 hot laps take 2 slower laps then get back on it for 3 or 4 more then come into the pits after a decent cool down lap.

And don't use your emergency brake.

You'll be fine, new brake fluid will be your friend.