Help me plan my HPDE/ Street Engine Combo
06-27-2014, 10:14 PM
#1
Drifting
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Help me plan my HPDE/ Street Engine Combo
Hey all, I need a bit of advice... I'm debating between a cam-only LS3 that my friend will sell me for very reasonable (motor has 8,000 miles), or a heads/ cam setup on my current LS6. Keep in mind that my LS6 is a 2001 (April of 01) with 70,000 miles, so all the classic oil consumption mumbo jumbo may or may not apply. I have put 3,000 miles on the car and have not noticed any significant oil consumption issues, but then again I have not yet tracked it. I actually have already purchased ALL the parts to do the heads/ cam. ETP heads, an FTI cam, Fast 92 intake, etc. The ETP/ FTI cam combo made 500rwhp/ 470rwtq on an LS6 shortblock. Power wise, the cam-only LS3 and the heads/ cam LS6 will be comparable.
The car will see 3-5 HPDE events max per year. The stickiest tire that the car will see is a Nitto NT05, stock springs with the Pfadt JOC package. The rest of the year it is essentially my daily driver, although I do have a secondary vehicle.
My primary concern is reliability. I've been reading so many threads regarding oiling problems, dry sumps, Accusumps, extra quart, lifter tray drilling, etc and I felt the need to start a new thread.
What does everyone advise?
The car will see 3-5 HPDE events max per year. The stickiest tire that the car will see is a Nitto NT05, stock springs with the Pfadt JOC package. The rest of the year it is essentially my daily driver, although I do have a secondary vehicle.
My primary concern is reliability. I've been reading so many threads regarding oiling problems, dry sumps, Accusumps, extra quart, lifter tray drilling, etc and I felt the need to start a new thread.
What does everyone advise?
06-28-2014, 10:10 AM
#2
Melting Slicks
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Tried to respond yesterday but had to repair some browser issues.
To me it doesn't seem reasonable to rebuild the upper half of a 70,000 mile motor and expect it to hold together doing track sessions. Especially hpde which is no different than a bad crack habit. I think engine components wear together, and when you start upgrading or rebuilding one section, it places more stress in another. For example, the valves and piston rings have to seal to create compression. As the miles accumulate and these components wear, they will start to leak a bit. If you rebuild the heads, the valves will seal better than the rings placing more stress on the rings.
If it were my car, I would go with the LS-3 motor. Only 8k miles on it, my big concern is will it fit without further modification or adapters. If its a bolt-in swap, its a no-brainer. I don't know for sure, but I think the LS-3 may also have some improvements over the older LS-6, but other experts would have to chime in on that thought.
The reliability of the LS-3 I think is pretty high. Where the wet sump versions have trouble is high sustained g's that would be generated on sweeping turns on R-compound tires and high engine rpm's. The extra quart of oil GM recommends will help with that. If you plan to stay on street tires, this probably won't be an issue. If you are really concerned about it and your are swapping motors anyway, convert the LS-3 to either an ARE dry sump system or the newer GM system (larger tank). You'll have to replace the crank shaft to go to a dry sump system regardless of the brand, but then it would be a forged assembly and a bit tougher than what's in there right now.
To me it doesn't seem reasonable to rebuild the upper half of a 70,000 mile motor and expect it to hold together doing track sessions. Especially hpde which is no different than a bad crack habit. I think engine components wear together, and when you start upgrading or rebuilding one section, it places more stress in another. For example, the valves and piston rings have to seal to create compression. As the miles accumulate and these components wear, they will start to leak a bit. If you rebuild the heads, the valves will seal better than the rings placing more stress on the rings.
If it were my car, I would go with the LS-3 motor. Only 8k miles on it, my big concern is will it fit without further modification or adapters. If its a bolt-in swap, its a no-brainer. I don't know for sure, but I think the LS-3 may also have some improvements over the older LS-6, but other experts would have to chime in on that thought.
The reliability of the LS-3 I think is pretty high. Where the wet sump versions have trouble is high sustained g's that would be generated on sweeping turns on R-compound tires and high engine rpm's. The extra quart of oil GM recommends will help with that. If you plan to stay on street tires, this probably won't be an issue. If you are really concerned about it and your are swapping motors anyway, convert the LS-3 to either an ARE dry sump system or the newer GM system (larger tank). You'll have to replace the crank shaft to go to a dry sump system regardless of the brand, but then it would be a forged assembly and a bit tougher than what's in there right now.
06-28-2014, 06:24 PM
#4
Melting Slicks
LS3 without a dry sump has known reliability issues, stay away IMO.
LS1/6 has much less oiling issues by far without a dry sump.
I would do a leak down test on that LS6, if it passes the test I would pull the heads and send them to Advanced Induction and have their CNC program done on them. Ask them for a cam that won't kill valve springs(major concern with a track day car) and make a reliable 450rwhp, it's been done numerous times.
Get an oil cooler on the car.
450rwhp in ANY track day car is a brake destroyer....I could only imagine what 500rwhp would do.
HP is not the main thing that makes you fast on track, the drag race mentality and dyno queens do not make a fast car/driver.
BTW if you find a car that has LS power that doesn't use oil on track.#1. you're ***** footing it around. #2 if you're not pussyfooting it around, send it to the Smithsonian, because its the only one on earth.
The LS1/6 I built uses a quart a day on track, but it has a boot print in the throttle body.
LS1/6 has much less oiling issues by far without a dry sump.
I would do a leak down test on that LS6, if it passes the test I would pull the heads and send them to Advanced Induction and have their CNC program done on them. Ask them for a cam that won't kill valve springs(major concern with a track day car) and make a reliable 450rwhp, it's been done numerous times.
Get an oil cooler on the car.
450rwhp in ANY track day car is a brake destroyer....I could only imagine what 500rwhp would do.
HP is not the main thing that makes you fast on track, the drag race mentality and dyno queens do not make a fast car/driver.
BTW if you find a car that has LS power that doesn't use oil on track.#1. you're ***** footing it around. #2 if you're not pussyfooting it around, send it to the Smithsonian, because its the only one on earth.
The LS1/6 I built uses a quart a day on track, but it has a boot print in the throttle body.
06-28-2014, 06:31 PM
#5
Melting Slicks
06-28-2014, 09:23 PM
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St. Jude Donor '08
I would stay with the stock LS6 also. Your motor has more than enough HP.
Without sticky tires you will not be able to put the power to the ground so it is of no use. Also, more power equals more heat and these cars, even when stock, have issues dealing with all the heat.
One thing no one else mentioned is safety. These cars are super fast stock from the factory. Running a street car has race speeds is not a safe thing to do. Seriously!! Despite whatever you think things can and do go wrong quickly and in a big way!!
I hope you are very mechanically oriented because most of the people I saw running corvettes at track days spent a lot of time working on them.
Without sticky tires you will not be able to put the power to the ground so it is of no use. Also, more power equals more heat and these cars, even when stock, have issues dealing with all the heat.
One thing no one else mentioned is safety. These cars are super fast stock from the factory. Running a street car has race speeds is not a safe thing to do. Seriously!! Despite whatever you think things can and do go wrong quickly and in a big way!!
I hope you are very mechanically oriented because most of the people I saw running corvettes at track days spent a lot of time working on them.