franman69

Guys.. if you've cam'd your car (LS2) see my thread in Tech..
I appreciate any insight/advice...

5280Racer

It all depends on what oil temp you are seeing. I personally use Mobil 1 race 10W40 but I drive very hard, and a lot. I would say for oil temps between 200-230 degrees operating use 10w30 sand 230-260 use 10w40. Take it with a grain of salt and research find out what works best for you.

franman69

My oil temps run well over 250 on track days.. even with the Z06 cooler (so far). Just found this link from GM about tracking the new C7.. using M1 15W50.. I think this is the way I may go for this hot season.

blkbrd69

Search is your friend.

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-z...ammed-z06.html

franman69

I read that thread... the last guy notes that 15W50 lowers his oil temp. I also read Rat540 post about his wear testing. There's so much conflicting info out there. That's why I posted. Many of the popular performance oils (Gibb, Redline) don't test well on Rats test. Search is my friend but I'm looking for builders/tuners recommendations for street/track day cars with a high lift Cam and HS/HT operation at the track.

blkbrd69

Rat's data while great for one facet of wear is just one piece of the oil film puzzle?

Several members have reported lower temperatures using thicker oils in the LS 1-7. Goes against common theory, but "could" be due to huge amounts of windage and blow by??? Thinner oil may have a tendency to whip more?

Have you noticed your high temp. high RPM pressures with 5-30? If you are making 70 lbs at 270* & 6000 RPM, that is different than 45 lbs at same.

Very hard to get builders to post on the forum as the animosity goes through the roof.

Does not make since Chuck would recommend M1 5-30 with a cam, as he has spoke with me at length about this?

Have read Katech recommends 15w50 as do several other builders for track use, not street use. Some even recommend dino oils with more frequent changes.

franman69

My pressure appear to max out around 75-80 when Hot... At 6000RPM, I rarely get to glance at gauges!... I'm at 38psi hot idle and a street pull will get me up near 60psi but it settles down as the RPM's build. Chuck didn't "recommend" 5-30, but he also didn't tell me that he put in anything different. Guess I have to double check with him also. M1 15W50 is starting to look like my "summer-track season" oil...

Agreed that Rat's research is very interesting and just one piece of the puzzle...

StKnoWhere

Same for me based on GM's C7 recommendation.

Pumba

If you will accept an oil with 40 weight at the highest temps you run, try Red Line 0W40 - http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=126&pcid=21

If you feel you must have an oil with a 50 weight at the highest temps you run, try Red Line 5W50 - http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=135&pcid=21

I personally use the Red Line 0W40 oil in my 700 SAE HP engine. My engine is equipped with an A.R.E. 12 quart dry-sump system and a SETRAB 51-09401-01 oil cooler.

Good luck with your decision.
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franman69

Pumba.. thanks for the insight. It's not about what I will accept. I'm trying to protect my valve train properly. I'm sure my oil temps are higher than yours as you have Dry Sump and a Setrab external cooler. If you track your car, what type of Oil Temps do you see when hot?? I have seen 290+ a few times (278 highest last event after installing Z06 cooler).

Chris Edwards

franman, I've been reading about oil options for cammed stock shortblock LS motors for the last several days until I am blue in the face. Likely the most complicated subject to get a definitive answer on. I keep reading these bullet points:

1. For off the shelf oil available at local parts store: Mobil 1 0w40 or Castrol (German made version) 0w30. Numerous posts about how either of these two oils have helped to lower oil consumption from 1qt per track day, to 1/2 or 1/3qt per track day.

2. Countless guys that say "engine was designed for what's on the filler cap, stick with Mobil 1 5w30"

3. Guys with more aggressive combos, purpose built track cars, non-stock ring gaps, etc touting Redline and Amsoil products.

4. Very few people indeed recommending 50w oil

5. Guys who track their cars regularly and use any of the above combinations sending their oil to Blackstone labs and receiving gleaming reports back from them

6. Guys who have used Mobil 1 0w40 and CG (Castrol German) 0w30 saying they are seeing a few more psi at hot idle and a slightly quieter valvetrain after installing their cam packages.

franman69

Right?? So many opinions and there I go asking for more!... I just want to protect my valve train on HS/HT use at the track. A few mechanics and tuners have told me and my track buddies to STAY AWAY from the M1 5W30 as recommended.. It is for Stock Engines only and when we cam the cars and raise all these stress issues in the valve train, (various) other products are called for.. How much ZDDP?? .. what about Rats "Wear Testing"... what about cold startup Viscosity?? what about Hot running viscosity on the track?? so many variables..

I think I'm down to either M1 15W50 or M1 0W40... like the added ZDDP (1100ppm vs 900 on the 5W30) and the slightly higher viscosity for HOT running... but there are down sides to both of these also..

Man, it IS confusing!

franman69

Some of the boutique Hot Rod and "Race" oils just are way to low on the Zinc IMO... it's an essential additive, but it all works as a blend of oil and additives so it's impossible to look at just one variable. I do like the GM recommendation for track use (on the C7) as a pointer though.

Chris Edwards

GM's recommendation of M1 15w50 is for the C7 though? How are bearing clearances, ring material, cylinder surface, camshaft hardness, etc different? During all my hours of research, for LS1/ LS6/ LS2/ LS3/ LS7 motors, I have read the LEAST amount of recommendations for using 50w.

Not to throw another wrench into the equation, I'd imagine that if you did the following:

upgraded to a Setrab cooler, thereby keeping oil temps within a more manageable range, and running any oil with a higher ZDDP content than M1 5w30, it would be an improvement and provide some resolution to the confusing and frustrating process of choosing the right oil.

I think ultimately, making sure there is enough oil in the motor, that the oil does not get too hot, and monitoring things like compression tests, leak down tests, and valve spring pressures over time will contribute just as much to valvetrain/ engine longevity as magically choosing the right oil.

My intuition tells me that M1 5w30 is insufficient for anything other than bolt-on (non internal mod) daily drivers. I found it interesting that some are saying that the M1 5w30 GM spec'd when these cars were new is not the same oil it is today, I believe they lowered ZDDP content even further?

franman69

They have lowered the ZDDP several times, but I think the last time was 2004?? I read a lot about that as well...

I just got finished adding my Z oil cooler so I'm working on plumbing it in a configuration that will get me the most return. Right now it's in series with my Z51 EOC (radiator) and I may just run it solo.. I wasn't satisfied with the temps my last track day.. 80deg ambient and I still saw 285 on my cool down laps...

Setrabs probably a better cooler, but I just finished this install and I'm gonna try and get it working better. (I got a steal on the take-off Z cooler so I went for it)... In retrospect thinking about the $$$ thrown at the Cam and install, well, I could have done what I wanted on the oil cooler for pennies more... live and learn.

blkbrd69

Your motor is making a bit less heat and should be a bit cooler up there, but this is some good reading.

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/auto...iscussion.html

Pumba

I see oil temps in the low 250s.

troyguitar

I think in the end you have to just pick something since everyone has different advice.

I have decided for my car that M1 0w40 is the way to go for street/track, with an extra quart being added for track days. (and an aftermarket oil cooler and oil thermostat)

Chris Edwards

Troy, what is your motor setup?