installing joc bars?
10-20-2014, 10:03 AM
#21
Safety Car
Let's be clear, though. Unless you are planning significant track time and are an experienced driver, the preload caused by the endlinks is irrelevant.
They do all of the things mentioned above but there are thousands of 'vettes out there racing on OEM endlinks. My C6 is one of them.
They do all of the things mentioned above but there are thousands of 'vettes out there racing on OEM endlinks. My C6 is one of them.
10-20-2014, 01:22 PM
#22
Supporting Vendor
PotAto, PotAHto in a way.
Right you want to corner the car with bars disconnected, and then use the links to hook them back up without preload which will jack with your cornered weights. However, because that's what happens with preload, it is in many people's eyes parts of corner weighting.
Typically I use these links http://www.stranoparts.com/partdetai...=30&ModelID=12 because they aren't a million bucks and have nice long studs and are more quiet than rod-ended/spherical bearing links. Some of those are just crappy $2 ends that rattle when you shake them, and lots of folks hate that noise.
Right you want to corner the car with bars disconnected, and then use the links to hook them back up without preload which will jack with your cornered weights. However, because that's what happens with preload, it is in many people's eyes parts of corner weighting.
Typically I use these links http://www.stranoparts.com/partdetai...=30&ModelID=12 because they aren't a million bucks and have nice long studs and are more quiet than rod-ended/spherical bearing links. Some of those are just crappy $2 ends that rattle when you shake them, and lots of folks hate that noise.
10-20-2014, 02:28 PM
#23
To eliminate preload you need at least one adjustable link on each sway bar. Install one end link (either stock or adjustable one set to stock length) on one side. Drive car back and forth a few times to settle suspension. Drive up on ramps or 4-post lift so that you can get to the other end of the bar to install the other link. You want the full weight of the car on the wheels. (If you really want to be accurate, have the driver's weight in the seat.) Adjust the length of the second link so that the bolt slides in easily. Torque everything down and you're done.
I recently switched to the factory links until I get replacements in for my worn out adjustable endlinks, and immediately saw a drop in grip - both the front end and rear end started loading earlier through corners than with the adjustable. This reduced lateral acceleration about 11% on my car... (1.3g down to 1.16 through a test corner that I regularly use)
good luck!
10-20-2014, 04:23 PM
#24
Safety Car
I recently switched to the factory links until I get replacements in for my worn out adjustable endlinks, and immediately saw a drop in grip - both the front end and rear end started loading earlier through corners than with the adjustable. This reduced lateral acceleration about 11% on my car... (1.3g down to 1.16 through a test corner that I regularly use)
And you ran the corner in both directions and averaged the results? Because if you're implying that a preload in the bar (due to factory vs adjustable "zeroed" end links) caused less grip overall, then I would argue it would decrease grip in one direction and increase in another. One direction would start at a higher bar rate (due to preload) and the other direction would first unload, then begin to load the bar (effectively reducing effective bar rate).
10-20-2014, 06:00 PM
#25
And during this testing, you had the same tires, tire pressures, weather conditions, amount of rubber in the road, vehicle weight conditions, alignment, etc, such that it was an accurate A to B comparison, with ONLY the end links as a variable?
And you ran the corner in both directions and averaged the results? Because if you're implying that a preload in the bar (due to factory vs adjustable "zeroed" end links) caused less grip overall, then I would argue it would decrease grip in one direction and increase in another. One direction would start at a higher bar rate (due to preload) and the other direction would first unload, then begin to load the bar (effectively reducing effective bar rate).
And you ran the corner in both directions and averaged the results? Because if you're implying that a preload in the bar (due to factory vs adjustable "zeroed" end links) caused less grip overall, then I would argue it would decrease grip in one direction and increase in another. One direction would start at a higher bar rate (due to preload) and the other direction would first unload, then begin to load the bar (effectively reducing effective bar rate).
The factory links made the bars feel stiffer. It was obvious before even looking at the numbers.
Both ends were switched to non adjustable links; the car was losing grip faster at both ends. However I first changed out the rear to non adjustable, tested and noticed more oversteer. Went to non adjustable up front which balanced it back out but front end grip was lost.
If you look at the stock swaybar endlinks when installed on a car thats level, the joints arent at 90 degree angles- the main body of the links isnt straight in line between the mounting tab on the a arm and the mount tab on the bar. It should all be at perfectly straight angles to maximize the amount of movement. When you limit the movement, the bar loads up faster and gives a higher rate sooner. This isnt an issue of one side vs the other - both links are at angles that will load them sooner. taking a left or right turn.
I spent a while thinking about the variables and kept testing it - pressures and temps... and no the variables werent all taken out of the equation (that would be impossible) but if I take the same turn at 1.25 to 1.3 gs for 6 to 8 months with one setup, then swap out the links and immediately notice the car's grip being reduced right after testing again, then look at the corner acceleration and see the lateral acceleration is consistently lower, then repeat that for a few weeks, Ive got a pretty solid idea of whats going on.
Even on initial turn-in the car would scrape the front valence more often with the adjustable as they allowed more movement, whereas the factory ones loaded the bar up enough where I stopped getting turn in scrape with the weight transfer...
I hope this clears things up a bit.
take it easy!
Last edited by el es tu; 10-20-2014 at 06:15 PM.
10-20-2014, 06:55 PM
#26
Race Director
PotAto, PotAHto in a way.
Right you want to corner the car with bars disconnected, and then use the links to hook them back up without preload which will jack with your cornered weights. However, because that's what happens with preload, it is in many people's eyes parts of corner weighting.
Typically I use these links http://www.stranoparts.com/partdetai...=30&ModelID=12 because they aren't a million bucks and have nice long studs and are more quiet than rod-ended/spherical bearing links. Some of those are just crappy $2 ends that rattle when you shake them, and lots of folks hate that noise.
Right you want to corner the car with bars disconnected, and then use the links to hook them back up without preload which will jack with your cornered weights. However, because that's what happens with preload, it is in many people's eyes parts of corner weighting.
Typically I use these links http://www.stranoparts.com/partdetai...=30&ModelID=12 because they aren't a million bucks and have nice long studs and are more quiet than rod-ended/spherical bearing links. Some of those are just crappy $2 ends that rattle when you shake them, and lots of folks hate that noise.
I did not know of these when I changed all mine, the only ones I found were 2x that price.
Or cheap junk (yes I went thru a few of those).
10-21-2014, 12:32 PM
#28
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
c u in rearview if you have a base c6 you'll need to add spacers in the bushing bracket clamp so you don't compress them. The OEM clamps are made for the OEM rubber bushings. Love my JOC1 setup
OEM front sway bar bushing bracket is to small or needs washers to get the right pinch on bushing.
OEM front sway bar bushing bracket is to small or needs washers to get the right pinch on bushing.
Last edited by C U IN REARVEIW; 10-22-2014 at 02:20 PM.