rbl

I think you are blindsided and you are the one who is unwilling to sort the facts. The discussion is NOT bankruptcy. It is a simple matter of this guy knowingly and willingly stiffing regular folks (customers).

Customers should never have to reverse charges on a CC or have the seller "scare up" their order for payment he accepted for items he knew at the time he could not provide. No client issues can be rectified at this late date and it sounds like he basically sold poor product under the label of others reputation and hype.

I am surprised you are willing to stick you own reputation on the line for this ..... think about it.

JDIllon

I'm sitting here trying my best not to respond in this thread! But as you can see it is not working!!! LOL!
It is easy to say that Pfadt should have done this or that, when you are fighting to save your business that is on the rocks. Things are happening very fast and you are trying to juggle orders in with orders out and keeping a lot of ***** in the air at the same time. I am not saying that it is right or moral! I have had several dealers that have gone under and all of them have left both customers and suppliers with problems. None of them did it on purpose, it just happened. None of us know how many people were burned by Pfadt?? Even one is too many, but these things happen. If the number is high then the new Pfadt will suffer from it.
One more point!!!! I am very disappointed, NO disgusted! That a forum supplier jumps in here and bad mouths another. I will tell you this, I have met Aaron and Lou on several occasions at different shows and events. And I have never heard Aaron bad mouth any of his competition or call them names! I'm sorry to say that I can not say the same for LG.
I have purchased from both and feel that they both try to supply the best product to their customer and both have tried to solve any problems with the product to the best of their ability. JD

Streetk14

After Pfadt went under, I had the opportunity to have a chat with their former lead welder. This guy no longer had a job, and I could tell from many things he said that he wasn't happy with Pfadt or the management there. He actually went off on quite a rant to me about them. Frustrated, as I'm sure you could understand.

But.... he told me their headers were all fully build in-house in their Utah facility by him and a couple other fabricators. I can honestly say that this guy had ZERO reason to lie for Pfadt's benefit, and I believe what he told me. Of course, this doesn't change the fact that the last set of headers I bought didn't fit well. That would be their 1 7/8" C6 header. I got the inside scoop on that as well, but that's another story.

In the end I was left with a poorly fitting product and no chance for a refund or replacement product. I'm the last guy who is going to try to help Pfadt make a "come back". I just hope that they make things right for the customers who got screwed earlier this year. Probably not likely, but maybe we can hope.

Dale1990

Can't speak to the rest of the parts but one of the welders that worked on the headers posts regularly on a welding forum I watch and they are definitely in the US. He had a demo thread over there a few months (I think) after Pfadt started advertising them here. I have no idea where the materials were sourced, though.

dhowdy

It's conceivable someone higher in management could slip extra chinese headers into inventory after the rest left the welder's hands. It would keep up the charade of made in America, even to the people working here for the company, while saving drastically on labor costs if say only 10-20% were made here. There's no support or evidence for this... but it would be a pretty genius scam if someone pulled that off.

Olitho

I would like to see a list of the claims of those who did not get the product they ordered. I am sure they are out there, but right now this argument is being litigated by those of us who have not personally taken a loss. Like I said before, those that have a loss still outstanding should write to Aaron and make their claim. That is what I would do.

I am not staking my reputation on anything, I am just disagreeing with some of you. I am simply stating the fact that companies go out of business frequently. Not always is the taking of the orders up to the last day a conspiracy to steal. Banks and tax agencies can show up and lock doors. Sometimes logistic companies are used to fulfill orders and they can suddenly put the company on credit hold, etc. There are a myriad of reasons things can happen to vendors, customers and employees and they are most often, in my experience, not sinister. It is just that the struggling company ran out of cash as when the music stops it is hard to know who will be without a chair.

Olitho

Let me share with everyone here that I know the management and operations of aFe Power very well. The aFe CEO is a very smart, energetic and magnetic personality. He truly loves performance cars and parts. Twice I have walked his plant floor in the three separate buildings they occupy in Corona, California near where I live and race. The CEO is very detail oriented and speaks plainly and bluntly to his management staff and those on the production line. He knows exactly what he wants and how he wants it done and the workers seem to appreciate is direct style of communication as he delivers it well. He is a unique man in that he has a strong vision, but still has an incredible attention to detail while not getting caught up in minutia.

Under his leadership, aFe Power has grown substantially in the last 10 years and like Pfadt, most of their products are not only made in the USA, but made in California, too. The new Pfadt racing will enjoy unprecedented access to shop space, machinery like CNC machines, in-house dynos and more. The management team has depth and maturity. The finances of the firm appear to be strong. These are all the kind of assets we wish for in our own companies. Aaron Pfadt is in an environment where he can grow and thrive. Racers across the US will benefit as will his competitors. Strong competition and a good market breeds better products and vendors for all of us.

Olitho

I too know both Lou and Aaron. I have products from both on my race car. I have even supported campaign contribution to Lou when he ran for congress. I will do so again if he chooses to run again. Lou was a great mentor, and my first professional driver as a coach, when I was still very green and on my trek to become a racer. I still remember his coaching well that day at WSIR back in early 2005. He was a pleasure to have around.

I think everyone here is better served keeping the arguments clean and upbeat. Let's make only the claims for which we can positively back with irrefutable evidence and let the products and companies speak for themselves. Consumers are smart and they will make their own choices.

dbs1vette

"...another story...".

Well there certainly can't be a better time to share the details than now, so-let's hear it. Details please. For those contemplating future purchases from this guy and his company it might be well to hear some facts that you know and others don't...

Unreal

They would have been better off buying the designs and rebranded them all AFE parts. Instead you can just add AFE to a list of companies that many of us won't do business with. Have AFE take the emails and repair/replace/refund all the old customers if they want to prove something. Buying a company name should include their debt.

Werks

I had a nice long post written that unfortunately did not load. To be candid with you though I could care the least about the environment that Aaron Pfadt is now in! Just as I'm sure he was really concerned about the well being of his customers when he was billing them for product that he could not ship or when he was selling products with known issues like his defective sway bars and faulty shocks. What I do care about is what he has done before and how he and his company has treated everyone.

As far "Racers across the US will benefit as will his competitors" is concerned I totally disagree. The biggest benefit to racers across the US was when Pfadt closed it's doors. Putting it frankly there are few if any parts that Pfadt made that are racing product or stood up to the rigors of racing use, even though they were marketed as such. Pfadt made flashy, well marketed parts that were of questionable quality and design. People dumped a ton of money in his stuff only to find that it broke and/or did not work as it should and not once when they were made aware of the issues have I ever seen them fix their design or stop selling the parts. That is not a benefit to the racers, that is not a benefit to the consumers, that is taking money out of peoples pockets that could have been spent on something else and frankly wasting it. In all of the years that Pfadt has been around I would challenge you to name the parts that he made that you as a racer would consider a quality, race worthy product?

Unreal

The motor mounts/tranny mounts (too harsh IMO for street but ok on a race car) and the camber kit (hard to mess up some washers/spacers).

Olitho

I for one use his sphericals and his sway bars. I have not experienced the problems mentioned with those products that other have experienced. I know early versions of the sway bars had some issues, but it is my understanding those products were modified.

I have as many races each year on my car as anyone. I qualified the same car for both SCCA T1 and GT2 at the Runoffs. I also qualified for the NASA Nationals at Sonoma. I have almost 20 races under my belt this year along with a good number of test and practice days. My car gets raced probably as much as anyone elses or more. I break lots of stuff, but I have not broken those items. I am sure I will as I seem to break everything eventually, but so far so good.

I have broken products from other vendors, but I don't have a vendetta against them. I take each product on its own and I assess it suitability for me in the future. Sometimes I stick with them and sometimes I don't. I personally love the choices.

Flying24

Seriously, I've talked to people who have gone through their warehouse and they're said they say headers being assembled.

Werks

The motor mounts / tranny mounts were already on the market before Pfadt came along (and I believe still are) so that is not his design or a product that they actually made. I ran across them on line at one point, Pfadt obviously just bought them from the manufacturer and had them anodized orange.

Regarding the camber kit, I don't know it you are using them with Pfadt poly's or what but see my experience below.

Lol interesting choice of words but let me stop you in your tracks on something. Labeling some one airing their opinion on their past issues/experiences with a previous vendor and their products as a "vendetta" is a complete stretch (but a good way to try and discredit what they are saying, cudo's). What I'm doing is not a vendetta, it's being 100 honest about a persons experience with a company and calling them out on their faults both with their products and the way that they did business. You might not like it, but it does not change the fact that what happened is what happened spin it however you want. It's pretty obvious that as and "advisor" to the new aFe relationship you are going to have a somewhat shall we say biased opinion of the whole Pfadt thing.

I'm not an SCCA racer like you but I do run about 25-30 track days a year and I get around at a decent pace. My personal experience to date has been:

a) The well documented Pfadt poly bushings popping out issue.

b) The sway bar lever arm of my Pfadt heavy rate sway bars deforming and falling off issue not once but twice. When contacted about that first it was claimed that they never heard about that issue. When I told them that I had read about the exact same issue on the forums before then it became "the sway bar was not installed properly". When I pointed out to them that it was installed by Katech who has installed a ton of their parts and then the car was sent over to Pratt & Miller for set up and I'm sure that between both of them they know how a sway par should be installed/adjusted it then the story changed again. It then became a "well you are using the sway bars on a track with sticky tires and high down force" which is outside of it's intended use. At that point I started laughing and told the guy that I was running Toyo R888's and had a Katech spoiler lip on the back of the car, so much for sticky tires & high downforce. I then spoke to Aaron and told him the sticky tire story which he then told me was not what I was told, like I have some reason to lie to him. To his credit though he did later during the conversation admit that they knew there was an issue with the bars in some cases but had not been able to figure out what the cause was. End results Pfat heavy rate front & rear sway bars removed. Later update when talking to my local shop I found out that they had seen the same issue with 4-5 other cars with Pfadt sway pars and had also discussed it directly with Pfadt.

c) Pfadt carbon driveshaft, after about 8 track days the factory installed aluminum adapter plate all of the bolts backed out. That resulted in me having to drop the bottom of the car to remove the driveshaft and have that fixed, I'm sure you know how much work is involved with that.

d) Pfadt camber kit. Works great with their poly bushings because the shafts are ground with an offset on one side. Changed the car to aftermarket sphericals and found out that I can only get 1.5" negative camber in the front of the car max. End result, replaced with DRM/LG camber kit now I can get to -3 which I need and more if needed.

So those are my 4x negative experiences with Pfadt products. In addition my track buddy bought a set of fetherlight shocks got them in and the adjustment clicker for compression adjustment on the remote reservoir was not working properly (not clicking). He called Pfadt and their response was that it was not a problem, just turn the screw to roughly the same position and he would be ok lol. Opting to not think that was the right way to do things he sent them back, got his money back and bought Ohlins. That same person just recently also had the issue with the circlips of his Pfadt spherical bushings popping out.

Now that is in addition to all of the reports of blown shocks (which also happened to one of my other friends), sway bar lever arms breaking (which I have not seen) etc. etc. etc. that we see on here. Top that with the crap that he pulled with customers at the end and you are telling me all of that is "good for the consumer" lol. Sounds to me like someone is looking at things through rose colored glasses, or might have a slightly vested interest in things

Now I have had issues with other vendors products too i.e. LG. The difference between them and Pfadt is that when contacted about the problem I did not get 50k excuses and a bunch of BS about the problem like the "sticky tires and high down force" nonsense. They listened to what went wrong, figured out what parts specifically were needed to fix the issue and told me that I would have them in 2 days and they were here. No charge, no fighting, no bickering just we make the product, we stand behind it the way that business should be done and how you support a "racing" product.

Olitho

Werks, you are making my point. The fact that we have choices is great. You have chosen to go LG and not Pfadt. That is exactly what I am talking about.

Do I have a vested interested? Yes, I do, only in that I like to see businesses succeed and not fail. I do recognize that businesses do fail and sometimes they resurrect to become even better companies. I don't have any financial interest in the deal. I only made the introduction and helped them get things started because again, I like to see businesses succeed. I like the choices of the products on the market and when companies compete we get better products. If LG or Pfadt were to exist without the other than the drive to build better products and provide better services diminshes.

I am not sure why we are arguing because at the end of the day everyone else reading our drivel will make their own decision and I doubt our bickering will have much influence. I will close on my droning on that "I like the option of many choices" and I like to see companies succeed, even if they have failed before. Who on this thread has not failed in the past and had to pick up the mess of pieces and start over on one thing or another. It is an admirable trait to push on in the face of adversity.

Werks

As a business owner I too like to see businesses succeed. The good businesses that put out quality products and have their customers best interest in mind that is. The ones that don't are usually the ones that fail and frankly they are often best for all left closed. I have no problem with competition and I will agree that it is good. Unfortunately in the case of Pfadt they put out bad products and used the forum and the rules about deleting posts that negatively critique paying vendors products to suppress negative information on their products getting out. If the stuff that Pfadt sold worked and they took care of their customers I would be sitting here cheering their comeback, unfortunately it did not and hence I'm not.

You stated:

Who on this thread has not failed in the past and had to pick up the mess of pieces and start over on one thing or another. It is an admirable trait to push on in the face of adversity.

True and it's an even more admirable feat if you can manage to sell a bunch of stuff to people that fails, rip them off and then later manage to get them to welcome you back with open arms lol. Failure is never the issue, it's how you fail that is. The history of Pfadt is known by many and I highly doubt that people are going to forget about the experiences that they have had in the past.

Personally I think that aFe would have been better served dropping the Pfadt name, buying his designs, hiring him as a consultant/employee and doing it under their own brand but what do I know.

Unreal

My issue is forever all these issues were hidden. I've seen so many of the parts fail, had nothing but bad experience, but you bring it up on here before and it disappeared. How is that doing the consumer any good? I had locals defending their parts because of their "good name" when they never even used their parts.

JDIllon

OK!! "werks" and "Unreal" you have both had problems with Pfadt, we hear you!! And you have chosen to buy things from someone else! Hooray, you have a choice. Did either of you loose any money from an order that was not shipped from Pfadt???? And don't tell me that you lost money because you had to replace this, that, or the other. We all have to do that with every supplier if we have a problem with their stuff. I have run Pfadt stuff for years and and had quite good success with it. And for many years there have been many posts on this forum about the great parts and service that they supplied. It must be nice to be able to know how things went down in the end at Pfadt. NOT!!!? As Oli said, there are a lot of things that control what happens when a business goes under and many of them are out of your hands.
NOTE: there doesn't seem to be that many people, YET, that have said they actually lost money on an order place with Pfadt. And by the way I don't have a dog in this fight, I live in Fl. and have met both Lou and Aaron at couple of shows and events over the years. However it does sound like you guys have a larger axe to grind?? One thing I don't understand is why anyone that had that many problems with one supplier would continue to buy his other products?? JD

charger21

It's amazing to me that certain people in this thread just bashing all the parts that Pfadt sold. Race car parts break, that's one reason this sport is very expensive because we are always wearing things out. If these Pfadt products were so awful, then why have big name companys and big name racers welcomed them at their events. For example, them partnering up with Johnny O. Also Katech was a supporter of Pfadt at their events in Michigan. I don't think they would want to get involved with products that are not good quality. They must have been impressed with something.