heavychevy

Give it some time bro. What you need to focus on now is making sure you know everything. Proper passing signals, flags, passing and being passed safely, consistently hitting apexes, using all of the track, braking in the same spot, entering the braking zone at the same speed, rev matching. Heck even learning the intricacies of the track you will frequent most.

Learn how to do everything right consistently first. Then you can start to push yourself. Pushing yourself while you still have to think twice about what is going on and it could end badly.

While you are doing those things you will probably look up and see that with those steps and repetitions you will automatically get faster.

SunnydayDILYSI

One thing that I noticed during the Dallas summer was that I hit the cooling limits of my C5Z well before I hit the performance limit. When I hit 285 Oil temps I added a Ron Davis over sized radiator with integrated oil cooler and now top out at 255. Watch the oil temps in the Phoenix summer as you pick up speed and run more consistently at high RPMs. It will help your engine life. Second on my list was brake ducts to cool the rotors/pads and help them last longer.

dbs1vette

Don't know if you were running the west track last weekend with the red group? I ran the 10 and noon sessions before calling it a day in my blue/silver Z16 04 Z. Several boss 302's, older mustangs, an S2000 and a few others in the group including in the 10am session a modded gtr and a couple of Porsche gt3's, who obviously were not aware there is no passing in that group except on the one straight.

I've run with the pro auto sports group now for over 10 years. I usually run with the advanced group, but for a couple of reasons I've gone back to the beginner group. One is I'm still getting used to the car and what it does, and the other is I dont typically have to worry about some guy dive bombing me in a corner just inches from my door as the hotrod in the gtr did. I used to run a bbc 67 camaro that had plenty of hp and although did very well in the corners for what it was, was no match for newer cars setup to rr. A few years ago I picked up an 02 SS camaro with a salvage title. Mechanically it was sound but the body was rough. I found that what it lacked in the straights it made up for in the corners compared to my 67. Then the engine let go and my shop guy offered to build me a 620hp 416 for half price.

Then I had a car that would corner and run with the big dogs in the straight. Because the car was very rough and mostly a track car I indeed could drive it like I stole it. Then it caught fire during a race.

I picked up the Z16 on a good price and because I had dealt with Sam Strano on the 02 for brake pads and handling goodies I asked for more input on the vette since I found I was slower in it. Since he's done well in both I found it interesting when he said the camaro was easier to drive at its limits than the vette would be, but once I learned the nuances of the vette I'd be quicker in it. With that same 416 now in the vette he was correct.

Lots of good advice here and I like SAMs...better tires, better brake pads and something to hold you in place will make a huge diff. Not discounting what others have said in any way. In fact with Bill living in Prescott I've wanted to ask him to come show me how to drive this thing. Dan Bradley with Maverick racing is a regular track official who occasionally races there as well. He can corner balance your car and help with the setup. I asked him what he thought after the first session and he said I was overdriving the car and trying to do too much. I thought about that some, and like you, thought to myself...well how the heck will I run with the Porsche and gtr if I drive slower. I think what he meant was...try to drive smoother. Smooth is fast. In the noon session I tried to do that, without laying back in the straight. It seemed to help.

On a course as short as that west track, find a guy that seems to know what he's doing and get behind him and follow his line. Pay attention to how he negotiates the corners. If he loses you in the straights, find another fast guy and follow and pay attention to him.

I have 3 sets of wheels and tires. I'm selling one as I really only need 2. I usually only do 4-5 track days a year and usually only the first 2 sessions before it gets warm. I run Nitto NT01's and for me, having a dedicated set of track wheel and tires made a BIG diff. The ones I'm selling I just put on CL today, they are black so you don't see the pad dust and the NT's on them probably have 4-5 sessions left on them but they are priced right.

If you went and were fine with being passed and didn't want to go faster, there would certainly be something wrong. Seat time and those 3 mods I mentioned have been huge for me. Sam Strano can help you with parts and the guy I mentioned can install them and help set you up. The rest is on you. Let me know if I can help. I'm no expert, but I'm happy to tell you what I've learned. Thanks.

Joshboody

Hey dbs, I was in the black coupe. There was a blue c5z that puffed a little smoke, which we chatted about it... you?

I do have extra wheel set that I may hold off using for a bit. And some minor mods:
-external oil cooler
-50% e85 and a little tune massaging
-c6z shocks

I'm planning soon:
-seat and harness
-LS6 pcv
-rocker trunnions
-tunnel plate
-maybe lower an inch and realign

I was thinking headers but I don't want to have to worry about the added heat... still debating.

I'm an engine guy so difficult not to touch it a little. Suspension stuff I'm learning.

Again, appreciate the feedback!

dbs1vette

In my religion I'm not allowed to smoke, so I hope it wasn't me...hahahahha.

I have to admit I too am an engine guy (additional hp). My setup guy refers to me as one of the "drag racers" and I'm sure that's why I'm so dissapointed we don't run the main anymore with the long straight that lets ya tickle the 150mph limit. At the same time, the shorter tracks are a lot easier on brakes and tires let alone what might happen at 150 vs 115, but I'd still like to run the main twice a year or so like we used to.

Lots of good advice in this thread and for me I have started going to comp mode since getting a better feel for the car, but as Sam mentioned, better tires (R compound) and track pads will make a big diff. Now that we don't run the high mph long track I'm guessing you won't need full out track pads, but the R tires and the additional grip would be very noticeable along with at least a harness bar and some harnesses to keep you in place. I had track seats and sold them because I got tired of switching them out. If you are going to only track occasionally I think the stock seats with a good harness will fit the bill.

Headers will add some heat, but also some power. You can offset the heat some with ceramic coating and wrapping them good, but harnesses and tires along with more seat time would be my first move.

Was the blue vette you speak of also have silver on the hood and trunk? If so, I guess I didn't see the smoking. I'll need to check on that. Thx!

Joshboody

No it wasn't you then, the owner was aware of the smoke.

I'm 6'6" so another seat is needed... I'm hunched down with my helmet banging against the glass roof.

VetteDrmr

Josh,

My advice is going to be a little bit different from the rest, but not much.

First, I totally agree with Sam about the seat. If you're 6' 6" you probably need a racing seat. I've been out of it a while but I can tell you pulling the stock seat is a piece of cake, truly takes no more than 10 min. Pull your street seat out, bolt in the race seat, go have fun for the weekend.

Along with the seat comes the need for a harness bar and harness. These two things are the FIRST mods I'd do to the car.

Next, find an autocross group in your area. Speeds are a lot slower (usually), and timed. This is important because you can have an objective measure of your progress. Not against others, but just yourself.

Also, you can turn off AH/TC completely and learn a ton about slow speed car control. And while not all skills will transfer, a lot do (looking ahead, throttle/steering/brake control, etc.) Plus, because the speeds are slower you don't have to worry about temps as much.

If you hear the old "I don't want to be out all day for a couple of minutes of track time", set it aside for at least 3 events. Also, don't think you have to run with SCCA. I expect there are several autocross groups in your area, and they all have different approaches. The BMW group I ran with in TX ran 8 laps per event. SCCA, because of their much larger entry count, only got 4. The SCCA group up here in Arkansas gets 6-8 runs in per event. So you just have to look around.

Also, the advice about "none of get paid for this" is golden. This is ALL about fun, nothing more than that!

So go have some!
Mike

SunnydayDILYSI

I've done a bunch of mods over the last few years. The biggest difference makers were race seats/harnesses, LG/Wilwood brake calipers with track pads (consistent braking), NT-01 tires (consistent traction), Camber Kit (more negative camber and holds the alignment much better), poly bushing (consistent cornering, but now undriveable as a DD), and oil cooler. The mod that provided the least bang for the buck, headers. Almost an un-noticeable difference in terms of performance, but it does sound a lot tougher .

dbs1vette

I too am a big fan of NT-01 tires! And this last weekend was my first go in the vette with harnesses. Though not quite setup correctly yet, a huge improvement over just factory seatbelts and sliding around in the seat!

Joshboody

A little update... I have been killing it gaining about 3-4sec on 2 tracks that I have revisited. Today was first day with new seat and love it. Last session AH and ABS service on the DIC... this happens sometimes at the track but clears after restart. Well I decided to turn everything off the final session... Have been running comp mode and it kicks in a lot and find it intrusive sometimes.

Anyway with everything off, it was great. I gridded first and had a time goal this session. It felt faster and that I had more control especially exiting a turn... 5 labs in, I lost it. Spun off the track in heavy gravel, black flagged everyone and needed a push out of the dirt. Crew saying, damn no tow hook when walking up (on order now).

Cars a little beat up, but seems ok... I'll never get all the rocks out.

Looking back I'm not sure what happened. I'm "thinking" that maybe the AH has been helping when trailbraking, which I do a lot... continue braking while turning.

Comp mode goes back on for awhile longer... but I'm thinking maybe leave off and just go slower for a bit. I did really like it off, but only for 5 labs.

SouthernSon

This is where you get into that 'where in the envelope am I?'. Once you see someone in front of you carry more speed into a corner you try it, too, and find that you can, indeed, carry a little more speed. The problem, until you get more seat time, is you really don't have a firm feel for what the car is telling you. Let me say it this way: If two people try to do a wheelie on a bicycle, one just learned to ride a bike, the other has been pedaling bikes for quite a while, yet, neither one has ever actually tried to wheelie. Which person has the better chance of success? As you get more seat time while keeping things completely under control, you will gain a feel for the car and learn the limits without actually having to exceed them. Take it one bite at a time. Don't try to eat the whole cow at one sitting.

JRitt@essex

Consistency.

That's what you need to work on. In my experience that is one of the greatest differentiators among novices and a pro driver. Over the years I've had the chance to drive back-to-back in the same car with a number of pro drivers. The thing that impresses me most with them is their consistency. They can go through the same corner, at the same speed, with the car dancing on the edge, more or less every time. If you can do that for every turn on the track, then you can start finding more speed. If you can't do that, then you're still incapable of squeezing the most performance from your car as it sits right now.

Once you find that you can nail every turn, but your car wilts under the pressure of doing so, then (and only then) will you know that it's time to upgrade the car rather than the driver to achieve more speed.

Lap times- the ONLY reason you should be concerned about lap times right now, is to see if they're almost the same on every lap. If you can't bang out 8-10 consecutive laps within a couple tenths of a second of each other (not factoring in traffic), you're not consistent. Right now, your lap times are probably not differing by tenths of a second...but rather seconds.

I'd try to get as much passenger seat time as possible with a good instructor. Talking all day about what to do on-track is not the same as seeing/feeling it.

Personally, unless there were some kind of adverse conditions, I'd leave it off and just go slower. You need to learn how to control the car, not let the car drive for you.

I agree with some of the others, a good seat and a harness were probably the best mods I ever did to my '03 Z. They enabled me to stay planted, feel what's going on, and control the car far more than the OEM seat and belt allowed.

Anyway, have fun and stay safe out there.

cwikstro

I like to think of this the same way I think of other sports, say golf. If you think new clubs will make you a better golfer, you will always be buying new clubs, then sure enough someone with an old set of nasty clubs will kick your butt!

The learning curve for Auto X or HPDE is very quick to go from rookie to pretty good, pretty good to really good takes a long time and a lot of practice and patience. I feel I can always get better and am now looking for .10ths per lap and where they are. Once you get there it becomes very much, as a lot of others have said, getting accurate and consistent should be your goal.

I think safety mods should always be first, as you found when you go off, you want to walk away so you can go again! Car mods will show them selves as you find limits of tires, brakes, etc and how to read them. When you upgrade because you have found the limits, you will appreciate the upgrade better than doing early.

Oh and most important, there is always more you can do and more $$ to spend! It never ends. Have fun.

Joshboody

Thanks guys… I have definitely learned that I can go faster. And I learned that faster can have consequences. I don’t think I would have reached this understanding in seeking consistency, without my incident… so maybe it was a good thing. Before this I was thinking how I can take each corner faster.

I could prob say I was driving more on feel. Now I need to better understand when/how I do things… technique. And try different ones. Can't wait to get back out there.

onargaroberts

With regard to your "off". Did you have video or an instructor with you to help you figure out what went wrong? I've been off twice at speed and both times I made the same mistake, actually compounding mistakes. But I had video so I could learn from the mistakes and figure out what to do differently. Also, both times I was in Competition mode so don't assume that would necessarily have saved you. Common mistakes are apexing too early and not bringing the car all the way down to the inside curbing. An apex too early "pinches" you on the exit and not putting the car all the way down on the curbing gives you less track to work with on the exit. Combine those mistakes and the problems compound.

Active handling may have saved you but to really improve you need to understand the root cause of the problem. I had to learn this twice and now after a bit of over correction on my part I'm working my way back to an earlier apex so I can carry more speed through the corner. You must get to root cause. Turning active handling back on does not resolve the problem of putting the car in the wrong place on the track.

Joshboody

Wish I had a vid
I'm not exactly sure when/how it happened. There's a fast corner (5) that I coast through and throttle on exit to get outside for the next corner (6)... I think I was carrying more speed into 5 than normal and hitting the throttle brought the tail around... but it also could have happened when braking for 6. I think the former because tail likely swung 3 times before hitting sideways, facing left into the left side dirt. My thought is that I was faster going into 6 and didn't adjust... let off earlier, earlier turn in, less throttle... not really sure.

I do have gps log, but its iphone 1hz which isn't so useful... showing 6mph faster into 6 that lap then my previous fastest with comp mode on.

The track:
http://wrapform.com/wp-content/uploa...-Track-Map.jpg

onargaroberts

Very hard to say at this point what was or was not the root cause. Just for curiosity, where did the car come to rest?

SouthernSon

This is exactly the consistency to which JRitt is referring. Never let speed dictate line, line always dictates speed. As one gets faster there is an over compelling desire to 'get started' on the turn sooner. Bad mistake to do that. Get the line down and work your speed from there. You will find it much easier to gain speed when the suspension takes the same set and the car is following the same radius.

Joshboody

I came to rest between #s 6 and 7 in that link facing the track.

Thanks, this makes a lot of sense. Actually thinking back turn 5 I had the least confidence on the whole track... I was hitting the throttle based on my initial instruction. The rest of the track I optimized, altered from my initial instruction based on feel... but this corner I kept thinking I "should" give it throttle, although I really wanted to coast until braking for 6.

2 weekends from now its a new track for me. I'm thinking I want to run it alone first 2 sessions and maybe get instruction for the 3rd critiquing/optimizing my technique.

Joshboody

I didn't do a full spin... backend swung 1 way, then the other, then back. thought I had it corrected initially, but I was wrong. I said spun off the track, but really slid off.