onargaroberts

This is the lesson I had to learn twice the hard way (different tracks). The last time, I had nailed turns 5 and 6 at Autobahn CC (South) and consequently arrived at 7 a lot faster than ever before. I turned in early and paid the price on the exit. It's just a kink and can be taken safely and properly flat out but that demands careful attention to turn in and apex. I missed the flagman stand on the inside of 8 by less than 2 feet. I was very lucky. Scared the heck out of me. It took me three track days to start going through 7 flat out again. I accidentally met that flagman a couple weeks later when we were both driving at another event. He had a horrifying perspective on the incident and was rethinking the flagman job. On the video I could see that I had turned in early and had missed the curb by probably 8 - 10 inches. The faster we go the more important these things become.

dbs1vette

JB- what group did you run in?

I started in the red group again just to make sure I had a good feel for the car and the newly installed hydraboost worked correctly. Everything went great in that session and I think we lapped most everyone.

In session 2 we decided to go out with the orange group and the 2 red ZL1 camaros leading the way. During lap 2 I passed the second ZL1 and was having a GREAT time trying to get around the front running ZL1 when I lost steering and brakes and had to make an emergency exit around the last turn into the graveled parking area. About then the smoke started coming out of the hood. Luckily I had been impressed the day before to get the fire extinguisher installed and my son got out and got the underhood fire out before it caused any real damage.

We found that a hose had come off a fitting on the return line of the power steering cooler and sprayed fluid all over. I burned up my former car with much the same thing happening, so glad we fared better here.

I ran with all nannies off and fairly new NT01 tires as well as race pads from Sam Strano and my harness bar with harnesses installed. Those 3 items IMHO make a HUGE diff in your confidence, which is everything, once you have mastered the basics (not saying I have done that yet). I also have some power mods that help me be competitive with the upper hp group, but being able to NOT move around in the car, confidence in its repeat ability of deep braking and especially TIRES (which greatly affect grip, handling, stopping) is huge!!! I have used the NT01's now for 6-7 years on 3 different vehicles and for me they work great. I would suggest them, a good track pad and a harness or at least the factory seat belt tensioner being set, and getting your car corner weighed and balanced has helped make my car very communicative with no surprises.

If I make the next event feel free to come look me up and chat. Thx!

Joshboody

Hey dbs, I think we chatted for a brief second... I was curious what happened.
I was in the red group, black coupe. There was actually 2 black coupes... the other was in orange and running with the 2 ZL1s 2nd session I think. He's SCed on RS3s I think.

I was timing some of the vettes... the black coupe was doing 1:07ish. #80 blue vette with wing in the race group 1:04ish. The red vette in the race group was <1min right with #93 black e46, who always seems to be the fastest on east and west... and started lapping peeps.
My time goal was <1:10 which I was a tenth away... street tires, stock HP. I was feeling really good, but learned my lesson about focusing on time.

I may remember you running... keeping up with the black c6z, which was really fast but I didn't get any times. There was a few z16s out there.

dbs1vette

Not sure if you talked to me or my son? He's 6'4" and I remember a taller guy coming over? I went back and watched the video. We may have got to 64 seconds once I started pushing hard on the Zl1's tail. I'm much faster chasing someone for sure.

Funny thing though, I've been trying to figure out where my upper power has gone from when I had this same engine in an 02 camaro. Much less of a restrictive exhaust in the camaro, but not 50hp less.

Actually pulled out an old tape of my BBC 67 camaro on the same course and found that it was running a 67 sec lap...until a 750whp vette started pushing me and I dropped it to a 62 sec lap on one that we let it all hang out on.

If I would tell you one thing...TIRES. Second-brakes. This would be after some seat time in the car and I could be wrong but it sounds like you have some? Before I started using dedicated track wheel and tires with track pads I had several off track expeditions. I've had a few since, but only after I or the car ahead of me oiled the track down.

I'm with Sam Strano on this...Tires, Pads, track seat/harness to keep you in place. Practice smooth, smooth is fast and with better tires which equal less sliding and better stopping you will be smoother.

jlutherva

Josh,
Long thread and lots of good advice. I didn't read the whole thread but did want to give you my teaching/instructing/coaching approach. First of all, there's a name for your competitive attitude - it's call "Red Mist". It clouds your judgment and can be very dangerous but, hey, we all get it! Like many said in your thread, don't focus on others. You only have a few track days under your belt so put your $$$ into track time and don’t worry too much about mods. Bear in mind, with a racing seat, harness and harness bar, you really need a Hans Device since the air bags might not work in the event of a crash. Also, consider track insurance. It sure comes in handy if you stuff your toy into a wall.

With your relatively limited track experience, you probably should still have an instructor. With that said, everybody is different. I soloed two drivers after their first days at Watkins Glen last fall. Neither had been on a road course before but both had racing experience in other venues. Some clubs offer better instruction than others. Some instructors are better than others. When you find a good one, request him/her when you register for the next event.
Here's my approach to instructing:
#1 Safety and track orientation: Know all of the flag stations and wave to each flagger on your first lap out. Look at each flag station each lap. Know the flags and what action to take w/o having to think about it. Get to know the passing zones and passing directions. Look at the track - where are the safe runoff areas and where do you need to be more careful? Are there any negative camber turns to be aware of? What turns have decreasing radiuses? Pick landmarks around the track to use as your breaking points, turn-in points, apexes, and track-outs. Practice keeping your vision up. Consider placing a thin piece of tape across your windshield at the appropriate level to remind you to keep your vision up. Relax and get comfortable with the track.
#2 The line: Don't pay any attention to what line others are driving and don't "drive in the mirror". The faster driver behind you can't pass anyway until the next passing zone so just give them a wave in the mirror to acknowledge his presence and drive your line. When you think you have your line down, ask an instructor to ride with you and offer suggestions for improvement. How well can you consistently run your line? Strive for consistent turn-ins, apexes, track-outs lap after lap.
If you are with a club that offers a warm-up session or parade laps, try driving laps off-line. Do a full lap on the outside of the track then do a lap keeping to the inside of the track. Hooked on Driving NE sometimes offers this exercise on day two.
#3 Smoothness: Link turns together. This eliminates the short straights between turns and minimizes chassis disturbances. You basically just roll from one turn into the next. Eliminating shuffle steering and keeping your hand positions at 3 and 9:00 o’clock helps smoothness. Use smooth hand movements. If you are smooth, AH will not provide any significant interference. At this point, you will probably notice your lap times have improved significantly.
#4 Braking: Developing good braking techniques takes lots of practice. The objective is eliminating coasting between full throttle and braking and to develop threshold braking. Get threshold braking down before starting on trail braking. Trail breaking requires a very delicate balancing act. If you are using 50% of your traction for braking you only have 50% left for turning! Trail braking also requires that you turn off AH.
How much braking does your car have? When you are on a straight and no cars are around you, brake as hard as you can. This will engage the ABS. Is it stable?
To practice threshold braking, I like an analytical approach called “Index Braking”. Pick one turn to practice on that has braking markers and a clear run-off area. Before starting this practice, make sure you have good track pads.
First practice entering the braking zone at the same speed every time. Pick a speed you are comfortable with and stick to it. This will require clearing traffic out in front of you so you need to plan ahead. Go onto the brakes at the first marker (usually 5) and brake as hard as you can. You will over brake. Get back on line and next time, drive into the next marker (4) and brake as hard as you can. Repeat until you reach the point of under braking. Hopefully, you will have picked a turn that has a nice wide chunk of pavement and you just continue to brake past your turn-in point and drive around the corner on the outside.
Once you get this corner mastered, look for other safe corners to work on.
With respect to run groups, I recommend moving up when you are spending too much time passing slower drivers. Likewise, if you are spending too much time getting faster cars around you, request a move down. You don’t want to waste track time.
Hope this helps.

Jim

Bill Dearborn

As Jim recommended treating the 5 6 corner combo as one turn can change the way you might be driving it. Basically you want to enter 5 and exit 6 so you can use all of the following straight for acceleration. I don't have a visual image of how you went off but one thing I think I should mention is the C5 has a tendency for off throttle oversteer. Your comment about floating the car through 5 made me think that maybe you weren't comfortable with what the car was telling you. If you came into 5 faster than normal and floated the car it may have been quite loose in the rear and tended to rotate to the left. Now the car might not be pointing the way you want it. Adding a little throttle may have settled it down, however, that can be counter-intuitive to a less experienced driver. One thing that comes into this is what you were looking at? Were you looking at the entrance to 6 or the exit? You want to have your eyes focused as far forward as possible. Just like throwing a ball you have to look at where you want it to go to make sure it gets there. In a car it is amazing how well looking at where you want to go helps you smooth your driving inputs.

Bill