hklvette

Depends on the definition of "R-comp". Pseudo-slicks like the A6, R1, V710, and Z214 all have such disclaimers on the side, IIRC. Some treaded tires like the R888 and Trofeo R don't. As dhowdy asks, where would you draw the line between "street tire" and "race tire"?

383

I think the 888 does say "not for highway use" I can look tonight. I still have my z51 rims and 888's for sale sitting in my basement.

greendot

A dry one.

t.renz791

Sexy!

strano@stranoparts.com

I think the notion that 200TW is some cure to the escalation of tire costs, or gives stability to the market is pure bunk.

We had stability with R's. Yes, they cost more but you knew what you had to run, and what was just behind, if you were at all serious. And you needed but one set of wheels to race on in stock because you weren't allowed to change sizes.

Sure some (not all) street tires are cheaper. And they do tend to wear better. They ought to considering how much slower they are. But now anyone at all serious has to test a litany of tire brands, in multiple widths (because some street tires like a squeeze, some hate it), in up to 3 different diameters at each end of the car. Sure. Most folks won't. And those folks aren't serious anyway, and as such didn't need top of the line stuff when on R's either.

Bottom line. This was supposed to make it simple. It hasn't. It was supposed to be cheaper. It isn't unless you look at it from the bare bones perspective. But you could also buy a Chevy 1500 pickup truck for $25k, or spend $50k+. It's about options and how you want to proceed. If you don't want, or can't afford a nicer truck, should everyone else have to suffer?

Take off tires exist, I sell mine cheap quite often. As for 10 runs and they are not fast enough anymore, that's bull. I've won National events on 60 runs tires that sat all winter in a non-climate controlled garage, after having run @ nationals the previous year.

TW is not anything you can hang your hat on. Never has been. Hankook was happy to have the original R-S3 be a 140 for years, until this all happened. Then they changed the number, on the SAME tire, to 200 and said that publicly. Then later changed compounds to make it work better in the cold and wet (can you say softer?). That also made them go greasy faster, does that sound familiar??? yet it's a 200.

It's a game, and I am quite sure if you took an R6 and ran it on a car with the alignment set to zero you could get a much higher TW number from it. In fact how do you square the fact the much softer A6 has the same 40 TW the R6 has? Because it's just a number...

troyguitar

The cost of testing different tires pales in comparison to what a truly serious competitor should be doing anyway: testing every different CAR option in your chosen class. Until you have a different car option tested out for each course/surface type, you should not be complaining about having different tire options to test.

The street tire classes aren't supposed to be for serious people like you, Sam. You're supposed to be in moneybags land of SSP and whatnot. Make your car faster and run whatever tires you want, dude. Street tire rules are there for casual competitors who don't have a truck and/or trailer or care to put so much effort into driving around in a damn parking lot.

If I wanted to have a trailer and race tires, I'd buy another shifter kart or just buy an actual race car. This is amateur fun competition, not serious racing.

strano@stranoparts.com

If folks aren't serious there are lots of events they can run. They don't need to change the rules for everyone to suit a few. But that's how this country is run anymore.

I think it's pretty funny how you tell me I should just spend more money on the car and run SSP or something (which is on the block as it's not well subscribed). Many more folks want to run in SSR than SSP. But yet when it comes to tires folks don't want to hear "spend some money to make the car faster" by putting on the one thing that makes the most difference. I dunno. It's about perspective.

*IF* this street tire thing had brought number up, maybe I'd be more ok with it. But it hasn't. It's just reshuffled where the folks who were running more than local events are. That's all. No massive influx of new blood, which was one of the reasons given for this. No consideration that if it was done to save money, that allowing wheel diameter changes works directly against that (costs money to buy new wheels and all).

I don't want to fight about this. I'm tired of it. It's hear. I hope those that wanted it step up and support it. So far it's not happened, and that is a huge issue for me because it was done on a hope and a prayer it would help numbers.

And local regions can do whatever they wanted anyway, this **** didn't need to happen. If you wanted SS on a specific tire, or type of tire that was 100% possible before.

I don't want a kart, I like cars. Again what your choice would be shouldn't reflect on mine. And frankly if you aren't driving a car that's legal in "STREET" anyway, it's a moot point. As for it just being screwing around. Well, that's your opinion. I see it as more than that. At higher levels the competition is fierce, and the fields are deep. It's no less serious than downhill ski racing is. And just like skiing, some are more serious about it than others. I wonder if we should ban higher end stuff that Bode Miller and the rest use just because some folks don't want to be at that level....

If you don't want to play there, you don't have to. Nobody was forcing you to spend more than you want. And if you see it as just a local game and running around in a parking lot that's fine and you were free to run anyway. But really folks tend to lie about that, if they truly were in it just for fun it wouldn't matter what tires they ran, or what car. Show up with a Mazda 2 and save lots more money.

troyguitar

I haven't looked at overall numbers so I can only use myself as an anecdote. I had zero interest in any street-car based competition using race tires and never attended any SCCA event until this year. It's worth $75 a weekend and a little extra wear on my tires to me to go hang out and have a prayer of being competitive locally/regionally. It's not worth spending $3k+ on a set of wheels+tires and a hitch+trailer to do the same exact thing.

You're actually trying to win at any cost, so obviously more options means more cost/testing for you. The effective "Spec A6" rules made it cheaper/easier for you, the new rules make it cheaper/easier for me. It's probably a wash in the end - but you didn't quit and I did join so maybe not? I don't know.

Either way, I'll probably end up on new R1R's or ZII Star Specs next summer getting smoked in SSP and NASA TT3 and you'll be winning at whatever you choose!

jmartynuska

I did see a Ford GT-40 at a cruise night once wearing R6's. Sweet looking ride.

383

Ok name 6 more.....

strano@stranoparts.com

Now we're stretching, a lot.

I defy you to look around at a Corvette show and find cars that aren't autocrossed or tracked on more serious street tires like R-S3's and the like. Most will be on Pilot Super Sports, or OEM Goodyears, and a lot on even more crap like Nitto Invo's. You are splitting hairs.

I should point out, I think, that banned tires come OEM on a number of high performance STREET cars as stock these days. And if you think the C7's base Pilot Super Sport is in any way equal to a 300TW tire from someone else (even the normal PSS) you're just wrong. It's a bespoke tire, but a legal one. However the Pilot Sport Cup/Cup 2's are not legal for autocross. The Trofeo R's on the Z/28 aren't legal. The PZero Corsa's the Boss 302 Laguna Seca came with aren't legal. Those are certainly performance tires. BUT, the super cheap tire that a Ford Fiesta ST comes with isn't legal because it's 140. Does that make sense? I submit it does not. But it and the tires that were OEM on Subaru STi's are NOT LEGAL because the TW number makes no sense. There is a HUGE difference between what comes on the Fiesta and STi and what comes on a Z07 or Z/28 (but they come from GM as street tires with TW ratings well under 140 even), but they all get painted wtih the same brush.

I'll go on, because I think this idea of name someone who has X on his car to prove your point is silly. I wonder how many folks have helmets? But we all have to wear them. I wonder how many of those normal street folks have custom alignments? I mean that's not normal. And even for those that do the extremes vary. And I put a good 10k miles a year on my Corvettes with -2.4 and more camber in the front. Would I expect any normal person at a Cars and Coffee to do that? Hell no. Meanwhile we know that GM aligns cars they give to magazines more aggressively, especially when headed to the track.

It's all a game. And here's the long and short of it. You guys who like the street tires, that's ok. Remember you got them. You don't need to come up with lame reasons why R's are the devil. And I'm allowed to disagree, and say why I do. I'm not new to this game. I've been around a long time and seen a lot of things happen in tire wars. This is the biggest yet because it involves more brands (and way more size options) than ever before. You ain't seen nothing yet unless you don't care to be at the top of the heap anyway. And that was always an option available to you (and a viable, personal choice one) without turning the world on it's ear.

That's all. If you take emotion out of it, and read what I'm actually saying you'll have a hard time arguing I'm way off base. You might want to, and you can try.

Disclaimer: I might not like how it happened, but it's here. And I'm not a moron and I have fully, and intend to continue to fully support my customers who run on street tires. And so far we've got a pretty good track record of doing it, and not just on Corvettes.

strano@stranoparts.com

Honestly, you're wrong. It might not be worth it TO YOU, and you admit as much when you say "It's worth $75 a weekend and a little extra wear on my tires to me to go hang out and have a prayer of being competitive locally/regionally. It's not worth spending $3k+ on a set of wheels+tires and a hitch+trailer to do the same exact thing."

Think this through. If it was your goal to go hang out and have a prayer of being competitive locally, you could have easily done so on street tires. I know where you live, there is not a litany of cars around on R's in your class. And even if there was one you could have probably made a deal to run the same kind of tire. If not, you could always run SSP, or SSM, or XP or some other class that won't have anyone in it if winning that local trophy matter that much. I'm sorry if that's harsh but it's true.

You're values deem it worth $75 a day. Some people think the entry fee for autox is just too high on it's own. Others aren't willing to work and don't do it for that reason. There is ALWAYS a reason someone doesn't like something someone else does.

Here's the deal. I own fast cars because I like fast cars and what they can do. If you hamstring me on tires, why in the hell not run a Miata? They'll run as fast or faster in most cases for far less money than your Corvette street tires to street tires, and you save fuel money too. But I suppose you prefer the V-8, just like I prefer stickier tires.

And spec tires would have worked. Didn't have to be A6. Could have been R6. Or something else, but no other tire comes in as many sizes to fit as many cars. But R6's wear a lot longer (and don't go grease due to the harder compound) and would have been a great solution at the bigger level. And the more regional levels are free to do whatever they wanted.

Nowanker

The topic has taken a decidedly 'autocross' focus. Odd. an R888 isn't fast (by standards...), yet still below the 200 TWI limit. Anyone autocrossing on them is automatically in the 'just for fun' category.

383

I won SSM locally on them.
To add to this, my only competition was on rs3's and we were within .2 of each other most times

Rob Willis

Heh. I was just thinking the same.

Looking at the picture, far fewer grooves in the new R888. So you would think more contact patch and at least slightly better grip?

V3tt3l

*Suddenly stops order for new tires*

troyguitar

It is interesting that 100 UTQG tires have almost no place in any competitive events. RA1's and R888's used to be spec in some classes but they've moved to the slick RR's instead in most if not all of them.

I'd rather run RA1 or R888(R) as a street/track/autox tire personally. They might not be faster than the 200 UTQG tires at autox but they generally hold up better to the heat of real tracks.

The R888 in particular comes in enough sizes that it could probably be used as a spec street tire for competitive events, assuming the new version also comes in the same sizes. I'm guessing that's too simple for SCCA/NASA/Optima/OneLap/whatever though?

R888 sizes:

13 185/60R13
13 205/60R13
13 225/45R13
14 205/55R14
14 225/50R14
15 195/50R15
15 205/50ZR15
15 225/45ZR15
15 225/50ZR15
15 235/50ZR15
16 195/50ZR16
16 205/55ZR16
16 225/45ZR16
16 225/50ZR16
16 245/45ZR16
16 255/50ZR16
17 205/40ZR17
17 215/45ZR17
17 225/45ZR17
17 235/40ZR17
17 235/45ZR17
17 245/40ZR17
17 255/40ZR17
17 275/40ZR17
17 315/35ZR17
18 225/40ZR18
18 235/40ZR18
18 245/40ZR18
18 255/35ZR18
18 265/35ZR18
18 275/35ZR18
18 275/40ZR18
18 285/30ZR18
18 295/30ZR18
18 305/35ZR18
18 315/30ZR18
18 335/30ZR18
19 235/35ZR19
19 245/35ZR19
19 265/30ZR19
19 265/35ZR19
19 295/30ZR19
19 305/30ZR19
19 325/30ZR19
19 345/30ZR19
20 285/35ZR20
20 315/30ZR20

Tim B in SD

Has anyone run both the R888s and Michelin Sport Cups that can provide feedback on the differences? I'm running the Sport Cups now -- and love them -- but wouldn't mind trying out the cheaper R888s. Running 295F/345R setup now.

383

My buddy in a Porch GT3 has and he said the 888's are better. He also said the NT01's were better than the 888's.
I hope the new compound compares to the NT01 because Nitto's won't fit the Z

Rob Willis

Any news on a time frame when these will be available in the US?