Dan H.

Happy New Year all,
I am installing seats and a harness bar this week, well loose fitting it together anyway. Here is what I have so far

Brey Krause Harness Bar
MTI Seat Rails
Sparco Evo II US seats

I am looking at buying the G Force Camlock 6pt harnesses from Amazon.

What I am not clear on is where to mount the side belts and the giblet belts?

Is it as simple as getting eye loops and attaching these to the seat rails?

Not sure how these would anchor to the chassis......

I tried the sticky, but it didn't go into how or where to install them. Thank you for your help

Dan H.

Is this what I need? Or is there other options

http://www.vetteworksonline.net/cata...products_id=58

tmtraylor

Lurking...Dan and I are at the same point in getting the C5 safer for next season (seats, harness and harness bar).

I am swapping my lap belt snap-in ends for bolt in type and plan to attach to the bolt that mounts the rear of the seat to the vertical section of the MTI rail. This gets close to the 60 degree angle that Schroth advises in thier setup guide. Also keeps the webbing from having to cover up and rub on a bolt head or the rail if it was mounted further back on am eye bolt.

There's not much vertical distance to fit a snap in fitting under the seat in the location that gives the 20 degree angle recommended. Also that's right in the middle of Balsa wood floor pan. I made a cross bar that mounts between the MTI rails and wrap my sub harness around that. Good reading here. Click on Documents and download the PDF for "competition installation instructions"

http://www.schrothracing.com/competition/profi/profi-II

Anxious to hear what others have done for a safe and successful install!

Whis9

In for updates

JeremyGSU

Mine bolted to my Hardbar seat rails.

brkntrxn

You can go with one of those or you can do what I did.

I drilled holes through the floor and bar that runs between the rear seat posts. I ran a short eye bolt in each hole and made a 2"x3" plate that fits inside the curled edges of the bar under the car to act as a reinforcement plate. This is for the sub belts. The sub belts go through the hole in the front of the seat and underneath the bottom of the seat to the eye bolts. Not the most ideal per Schroth guidance, but the best that works with my seats, seat rails, and the Vette layout.

For the lap belts, the outer lap belt is bolted directly to where the OEM 3 point mounts on the outer frame rail area. The inner lap belt bolts to the side of the tunnel. My cage builder welded a reinforcement plate alongside the tunnel and drilled a hole in it for me to mount an eye bolt. The backside of the eye bolt has large washers for reinforcement in the area above the tunnel plate.

For what it is worth, this was with Sparco Evo seats and with the original Sparco bases on both sides and now with a Hardbar rail on the driver side. The MTI rails should work the same.

Dan H.

This would be my preference. Don't really want to spend another $300+ dollars if its not necessary on the vetteworks anchor. I want to make sure what I do is
1. Safe for driver and instructor
2. Compliant with DE groups (So far its mostly been PCA or SCCA)

Whether the harnesses are bolted directly to the seat mount studs or the rails, the physics seem the same. But I'm a newb and don't want to learn the hard (expensive) way

ErnieN85

what ever you end up with make sure you get closed eyebolts like shown on the vetteworks they can be had from most race shops OG racing is one.
most other options bolt the lap belts to the rear seat mounting as it is the stock location (DOT) for C6 a six point is also best for the bottom straps to feed back and out instead of down through the front of the seat.
There was a discussion here a long time ago with a picture of the results of the five point after a bad crash the guy was skinned by the belt. he looked really bad

FAUEE

My G-Force belts came with bolt in hardware, not snap in. I could swap to click in, but it does me no benefit.

So, we'll break down the "generic" mounting requirements for belts. Shoulder belts are meant to be mounted either to the harness bar, or the frame and use the bar as a guide. Most people get a good bar and mount to it.

The anti-sub belt(s) are the most misunderstood belt of all. Here's a few things that are NOT acceptable for them. Running them over the front of the seat cushion. Running them around your legs and out the sides. Mounting them to the front seat mounts.
The Anti-sub belts are intended to be mounted ~2" behind the 5th hole slot. Many people will mount them to the mounting frames or the rear seat posts. This is technically incorrect according to SFI, and you may or may not fail tech for this. The correct way to install them is to drill holes 2" behind where the center hole will sit from your seat, and use reinforcement plates on the backside. You can see pretty quickly that poses a problem if you've decided to use sliders in your car.

The lap belts are meant to be installed so that the belts can swivel or are pointed the right way in case of a wreck. Many people just reuse the factory belt mounts. As far as I know, this is typically an acceptable way to mount them, provided you have a swivel bushing there. The lap belts are supposed to be mounted at an angle of -45 to -80 degrees, a fairly generous angle, just keep in mind they must be mounted behind you and the side of the seat.

I don't know how in depth the tech inspections will go, you may be able to skate by without your gear installed properly (I would imagine this happens frequently). I'm going to install my belts and stuff correctly, personally.

Racingswh

In my Wife's GS I had mounted everything to the Hardware mounts with bolt in hardware. The sub belts were mounted at the rear, in through the lap belt guide holes, under her thighs and up to the cam lock. Lap belts shared the same pass through holes and were bolted to the hardbar mounts. During her crash which was a 4 time side over side rollover she did not move. I could not have asked for better performance from the whole system.

In her C6Z the previous owner had already installed eye bolts for the lap and sub belts and that's what I use now.

brkntrxn

And that right there is very difficult to do in a balsa wood floored car. It can be done, but you have to either bolt the subs to the seat rail (which puts them at an odd angle through the 5th seat hole) or weld a plate across the bottom of the floor in the correct location, tied to the tunnel and outer frame.

Racingswh

What are your thoughts of eye bolts pointing inboard on both sides of a hardbar mount for 6 point harness sub belt mounts? They would be rearward of the sub belt pass through hole and securely fastened. Just wanted to get your opinion.

To your point I would much rather see a connection I can deem safe and secure than an improperly mounted attachment point through the floor of a car like a Z06.

We have heard for years that sitting on the sub belts mounted in the rear is unacceptable but were never able to determine why. Hence we are fine with it and in real world crazy crash accidental testing it worked perfectly. Any thoughts or clarification on that would be great.

c4cruiser

Here's a source for clip-in connectors for lap belts. These work well with Dan's Lap Belt Bar. Note that his part provides two locations for the lap belts. Simply remove one pair of the eyelets. I'm using them on my C4 and they fit fine in there using the OEM seat frame studs. As mentioned, you can also drill holes thru the floor and use large washers on both sides of the floor for better support. The link also has floor-mount studs in a kit.

After the autocross season, I can easily remove my G-Force lap belts from the car in just a couple minutes and store them inside. Otherwise the belts would be subject to moisture and wide temp ranges which could eventually weaken the belt material. I remove the shoulder belts and sub belt too.

One nice thing about the G-Force belts is that the company offers a re-certification process for less than the cost of new belts. Harness belts are typically certified for a 2 year period and a re-certification help to keep costs down.

FAUEE

It's relatively easy to get around this. Your seat bracket just needs to be designed such that there's a STRONG place to mount them under the seat.

I'd rather have my sub belts located in the right place than mounted to the rear seat bolts.

brkntrxn

I had the belts mounted that way in my Cobra. What I did not like about it was how the sub belt turned as it went through the seat hole and had pressure/rubbed on the rear and sides of the rectangular hole at the same time. It just seemed to me to be less than idea. On another setup, I mounted a crossbar as part of the seat rail/base and had the eyelets in the ideal location.

As for sitting on the sub belts.. this is actually how some belts are designed. In a frontal crash, I can envision the physicals still working correctly in that the sub belt would prevent the lap belt from riding up the pelvic bone as the shoulder belts tightened. However, in a rollover, I have my questions on whether the same would happen as now the thing keeping you from moving out of the seat would be the lap belts, but then again, the sub belt would still prevent the lap belts from moving on your hips. And that is their sole purpose, to locate the lap belts and not allow them to move above your hip bones.


I understand your point and I had a previous setup exactly that way where I mounted a steel bar across the two sides of the seat base (Sparco) and had eye bolts in the proper location. However, after I caged the car, I needed the seat lower and the Hardbar rails put it down where I wanted. Now I have less than a finger thickness of distance between the bottom of the seat and the balsa floor. So there is no room for eyebolts in the proper area. I ran the sub belts all the way under the seat and to the rear eyebolts I mounted between the rear seat studs, in the bar I described in several posts above. In a crash, the sub belt will still do exactly what it is designed to do and that is locate the lap belts in my hip bones. The only way anything would fail and prevent that from happening is if the bottom of my seat failed.

FAUEE

If you were out of space, why not just run a full bolt in, rather than clip ins?

brkntrxn

Not enough room. You cannot get anything except a belt between the seat and the floor.

Bill Dearborn

This is what I did. I wanted to bolt my lap/sub belts to my Hardbar seat rail so the they would come out of the car with the seat. To mount the lap belts I purchased some new seat belt mounts designed for a late 1960s Chrysler product. This mount is a bolt that goes through the rail and has a shaft where the lap belt is able to swivel. The only issue is the shaft was a little larger than the hole in the G Force hardware so I had to drill it out a little. Then I installed the mount near the rear seat stud but far enough away it wouldn't interfere with fastening the nuts on the stud. The lap belt mounts to the outside of the rail and comes up through the seat pass through. The swivel permits it to move around a little so I get a straight pull on the mount without kinking the belt (a kinked lap belt is what killed Earnhardt). The sub belts are mounted to eye bolts bolted through the seat rail a few inches forward of the lap belt mount. The eyes are to the inside of the rail so the 6 point clips can access them. There isn't much room under my seat since it is as low as it can go on the rails so I couldn't mount the sub belts as close to the lap belt mount as I wanted. The best thing would be to build a heavy duty rod that would run between the two seat rails and wrap the subs to it.

Bill

Dan H.

Guys,
Thank you for your help and perspective. I have ordered a harness that should be here tomorrow. I'm going to try to find some high grade (5 or 8) loops today. I'll post up some picks of my proposed setup when I loose fit everything together to get some opinions.

I appreciate your help, this is one of the best forums on this site!

Bill Dearborn

Did you order pull down or pull up lap belts?

Bill