mammoth713

New to HPDE.. Looking to do an event at streets of willow in Feb.

Car is a c5z with 29k on it. I'm assuming stock original rotors. Pads have about 40% left. Not sure what brand/model.

Few questions:
*What are the cheapest blank rotors I should use?
*what pads should I use?
*should I run separate pad for street vs track? Car will only probably see 4 track days a year tops
*should I remove existing rotors and replace with new ones just in case? (And use these existing ones as backup)
*is it true that once a pad is used on a rotor, that you should use a light sandpaper to remove the old pad material from the rotor before using with a diff manufactured pad?
* what fluid should I use?
*should I use a different brake fluid for street vs track?
*what is the best compression system for bleeding brakes? I saw a video of froggy using a "motive power bleeder". Is that the best unit to use?

Thanks

Dan H.

Get ready, I was in the same position last year and I am totally hooked on this hobby. I've only got 6 days under my belt, but I can help with the new guy perspective. Also, read the C5 prep sticky topic, there is hours of content, so much so that it is intimidating. Even though it can be overwhelming, there is a ton of good info on there. Some is dated, but its all pretty relevant.

I've answered most of your questions below. Biggest piece of advice is check any ego or what you think about performance driving at the door. These cars are capable of way more than we are as rookies or newbs. Listen to your instructor and learn from them. Your goal for the weekend will be have fun and not damage anything.

Something to keep an eye on will be oil temperature. You can hit 300 degrees if you don't keep an eye on it. I run 15W-50 for track events to help keep oil temp down. The video that comes with the car also recommends adding an additional quart of oil for track events.


What are the cheapest blank rotors I should use?
I bought Centric's - Sticky topic says they are cheap and decent. I haven't cracked one yet, but a few more days should do it.

*what pads should I use?
Since your at 40% you will need to change them. Tons of options here and probably a lot of different advice. I did my first day with stock pads because my car was low miles and the pads still had a lot of material. I then moved to a set of hawk pads and glazed them at Watkins Glen. The Glen also cooked 3/4 of the Hawk pad over a weekend with PCA. I now have centric XP-10's but I put them on for the track only. Sticky has tons of options, for your first day keep it simple. Stock pads or maybe some Hawks, your goal will be to have fun and not damage your car. You won't set the pavement on fire, but the grin on your face will take a few days to remove.

*should I run separate pad for street vs track? Car will only probably see 4 track days a year tops
No, stick with a street friendly pad to start

*should I remove existing rotors and replace with new ones just in case? (And use these existing ones as backup)
No, stock rotors will be fine to start.

*is it true that once a pad is used on a rotor, that you should use a light sandpaper to remove the old pad material from the rotor before using with a diff manufactured pad?
not sure

* what fluid should I use?
I use Motul RFB600, its around $18 a bottle on amazon, you'll need at least two to bleed your brakes.

*should I use a different brake fluid for street vs track?
No

*what is the best compression system for bleeding brakes? I saw a video of froggy using a "motive power bleeder". Is that the best unit to use?
I have the motive bleeder and it works really well. If you go this route make sure you also buy the catch bottle.

Get ready to have a blast. There are also some good threads on here regarding what to bring on your first day. Everything from tools, parts, water, sunscreen, and many other things.

k24556

Raybestos ST43 all around, or ST47 on the front and ST43 on the rear is the least expensive combination and very good for track days.

I suggest you clean and relube the caliper guide pins, and do a good check over of mechanical stuff. When you have the calipers off spin the hubs and make sure the bearings are OK. Add an extra quart of oil, when you run at high rpms the oil tends to stay up top and you want to have a reserve so the oil pump is always pumping oil. Probably no need to go to 15w50 just yet, but if you see oil temps above 270, then maybe consider going to 15w50

Any track pad will create more dust and if it gets wet it will pit the clear coat or paint on your wheels, so after a track weekend wash the wheels thoroughly, no matter the brand of pads.

You should be ok with those rotors and you don't need to sand them. When you put your track pads on, a little driving and braking while the pads are cold will scrub them pretty good. Then be sure to properly bed them.

To bed them make several hard stops from 45mph without activating ABS and for new pads you will smell the binding agents getting hot and that tells you have bedded them. Heating the rotor will oxidize the surface and [some think] transfer pad material to the rotor. Then try to drive until the system cools without braking.

YOu can go back to street pads on the same rotors and not worry about rebedding. The OEM's don't need it for the street, but you will have to bed the track pads next time you set up for the track.

Hawk HP+ will be just fine for your first year and they are easy to find as well. Carbotechs are OK, my only beef with them is that their written bedding procedure says to bed them in a track session. I refuse to put other drivers in the position of putting up with me bedding during a session, and me giving up a session.

Socko

*What are the cheapest blank rotors I should use?
i just buy whatever is cheap, i do try to fine the cone ones for the front as i feel like they likely cool better and are a tad bit lighter. If you use slick deals wait for a $50 off 100 or 125 at advanced auto. their rotors work fine.

*what pads should I use?
I use carbotechs (xp-10 front xp-8 rear), in theory you can swap out for bobcats for the street but the "transfer layer is a concern" arguement, imo the concept is nonsense. With carbos, even if you buy the "prebedded" pads they will gas out on track. No biggie as long as you are ready for it in lap 1 or 2 of your first session. The pads are easy on rotors and easy to drive and noncorrosive.

*should I run separate pad for street vs track? Car will only probably see 4 track days a year tops
Track pads are annoyingly loud on the street. i would buy other pads. i use cheap *** ceramics from advanced auto with the coupon along with front rotors one time lol.

*should I remove existing rotors and replace with new ones just in case? (And use these existing ones as backup)
That is the best bet, but first track day you shouldnt have an issue as long as the stockers are clean, eventually you will want spares.

*is it true that once a pad is used on a rotor, that you should use a light sandpaper to remove the old pad material from the rotor before using with a diff manufactured pad?
i see it enough to think there is something to it, but personally have no issue swaping 3-5 times a season. If you are concerned use carbotects and bobcats on the street makes it much more simple.

* what fluid should I use?
anything for race, ate is a good first choice as its cheap and locally available for most people.

*should I use a different brake fluid for street vs track?
Nope, just use ate or whatever is race worthy and cheap. i flush the whole system once a year and just clean out the calipers after each track weekend

*what is the best compression system for bleeding brakes? I saw a video of froggy using a "motive power bleeder". Is that the best unit to use?
Honestly the easiest way imo is a bleed bottle. Those motives do work but are a mess cause you gotta wash it out and whatnot. They also have to be repumped a bunch during a flush so its not as easy as it seems. the clean time for just cleaning out calipers makes it not worth it to me, I flush my system with 0 issues with a bleed bottle, but i have done it enough to trust myself. motive is more fool proof.

i use this one cause pegasus is local so easy to run over and grab goodies. https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/pr...sp?RecID=10387 everyone sells one

mammoth713

Is there a big difference between Centric Premium vs Centric CTeK vs NAPA rotors? The centric CTeK are very cheap $$$

??

Adam@Amp'dAutosport.com

Go with centric premium rotors Carbotech XP10 front pads XP8 rear pads and run the Carbotech 1521 on the street. Use Motul rbf 600 fluid.

XP10 $201

XP8 $158

1521 F: $141 R:$121

0Anthony @ LGMotorsports

Few questions:
*What are the cheapest blank rotors I should use?
NAPA if they are close to you, makes getting new parts easy. Make sure you keep spares with you. Centric/Stoptech works work well too, just make sure to use a slotted rotor or plain. No drilled rotors and don't waste the money on cryro treatments.

*what pads should I use?
Keep your OEM pads for street use and swap out to a good track pad before you go or there at the track. Cobalt Friction has been our #1 pick since 2005 and has been on every single race car since. There is not a pad around that can match it. Get yourself used to a good track pad now, and just swap for the events.


*should I run separate pad for street vs track? Car will only probably see 4 track days a year tops
YES YES YES YES. There is not a pad that can do everything. Most of your track pads are going to make noise and create a bit of dust...not to mention are going to be a bit more $$. Street pads are not going to offer the heat protection for track use...so keep them separate.


*should I remove existing rotors and replace with new ones just in case? (And use these existing ones as backup)
You are going to be going through rotors....don't think it matters to much. Keep spares with you. Check for cracks and check often


*is it true that once a pad is used on a rotor, that you should use a light sandpaper to remove the old pad material from the rotor before using with a diff manufactured pad?
Different pads require different things. Some pads do not mix well. Hawk and Wilwood pads typically can not be used on the same rotor. Check with the shop or pad manufacturer to check.


* what fluid should I use?
Motul RBF 600 is a popular fluid and works very well.

*should I use a different brake fluid for street vs track?
No. Stay on top of it and bleed it often to keep it fresh

*what is the best compression system for bleeding brakes? I saw a video of froggy using a "motive power bleeder". Is that the best unit to use?
Best way is the buddy method. Have someone at the wheel and someone in the car. You can check for leaks, and fluid condition and see if anything is wrong.

mammoth713

I'm on street tires

Which Cobalt pads do you suggest I use? Same for front and rear?

SouthernSon

Here are some good guidelines to look over:

http://www.1010thsmotorsports.com/page/page/5265175.htm

mammoth713

Have you guys had any brake fade w/ street tires & stock calipers & Carbotech XP10/8 combo?

*which pads are the best - Carbotech XP10/8 combo, Cobalt XR2 or Hawk pads?
*Which has the easiest bedding procedure?(seems like Carbotech pads really matter on the bed in)

FAUEE

Allow me to present a different perspective...

I would NOT get race pads yet. I'm sure may will hate me for saying this, but IMO if you're new to track days, you have no need or reason to run race pads. You should not be braking that hard that you need race pads, because you are there to LEARN, NOT RACE. Getting an extra set of race pads is a several hundred dollars expense, which is money not spent on track time which will give you more return on investment. If you're concerned about burning up your pads in that weekend, buy a set of OEM pads and take them with you. If you wear the pads out, swap the new ones on. I doubt you will run into this issue, but it's cheap insurance. I run StopTech street pads on both my Corvettes (and I just might switch to them on my DD I like them so much), they are quiet on the street and are rated to be used for light track duty (like an HPDE). They're also considerably cheaper than the OEM pads for my C6GS, and considerably better than the OEM pads for my C4.

Motul fluid is great. I use Valvoline Synthetic because it's cheap and I can get it locally, easily. I subscribe to the theory of just replacing the fluid more frequently. Again, you're not racing so as long as you're using fresh fluids, you should be fine on the track.

C5s have issues with cracking rotors if not given adequate cool down time. It's not a bad idea to get cheap blank rotors to have as spares, but the main thing you want to do is drive around a little after you get off track to cool them down slowly. If you get off track and park, you're at a higher risk of them cooling down too quickly and cracking. An extra set of rotors is cheap insurance that you get to finish your track day. I got my rotors from rock auto, because they were cheap, but sometimes local auto chains will have just as good prices (and replacement warranties... cough cough).

I would advise one thing overall. RELAX. These cars are built to handle this stuff. Before you worry about race pads, tow hooks, all that stuff, get fresh fluids in the car, make sure you have a decent set of 200-300 treadwear rating SUMMER tires, get a comfortable helmet, and get some track time. Resist the urge to modify your car for the track, and just focus on getting out there, staying safe while you're doing it, and not breaking anything while you're out there.

0Anthony @ LGMotorsports

XR3's front and rear. Nothing supper aggressive.

0Anthony @ LGMotorsports

Depends on just how much of a novice he is.....brakes are a big safety thing on these cars and I can remember loosing the pedal in my first Corvette on track. Not a pleasant feeling at all, or safe if you don't know how to handle the situation. Not saying you need the compound that is in a GrandAm/ALMS car...but something that has a greater temp range than stock.

Only reason I say it, I have seen 'newbies' at the track over heat the stock brakes because they tend to brake much longer than what a racer would do and keep more heat in the stock pads not allowing them to cool off. Not saying everyone does...but it's better to have more ammo than not enough.

Adam@Amp'dAutosport.com

Carbotech pads can be Pre bed so, no issue you can put them on and go. Compound depends on what tire. For a street tire yes 10&8 is the best bet. If you would like to order a set I will be happy to help you.

Socko

Though pads are a significant exspense when starting this hobby, the expense of not being able to deal with a destroied stock pad at 140-150mph is much higher imo. I would do what needs to be done to make sure you are comfortable.

The first time i tracked my vette was at a known slow(lots of traffic) day at Road America. I had tracked other cars there and was not a novice. I ran whatever random hardware the car had on it when i bought it and went through half a set of pads in 2 sessions, all the time fighting brake smear and fade. It isn't what i would want for someone new to the hobby.

If you buy track pads, you will hardly go through any pad anyways if you are slow. As you wont be loading them highly relative to their capacity. So though it costs you $400 for pads they might last you 5-6 track days vs the 2-3 that they will last once you get more intermediate.

Budgeting and track days really don't mix, but if you must, it is imperative that you at least amatorize costs. Just saying it will cost $1500 to get on track is silly but it will.

$400 - pads
$300 - helmit
$300 - tracktime
$250 - insurance

then add in the fact that you will need some fluids, some tools, a track pack(something to fit all your crap in to contain it at the track). Amatorize rotors, tires, and drivetrain wear.

IMO nickle and dimeing it isn't the way to do your first track day, you will be busy enough trying to figure out wth is going on. You drive a vette so 0 performance mods are by any means reasonable, but safety mods are great. Anything you can do tha twill make you more confident is great. A big part of having fun on track is minimizing the concern of your car getting you home. Change fluids if it makes you happy, buy new rotor blanks if you think they might be needed.

spring i change all fluids on my car every year. do I need to, probably not, but it costs $200 and makes me happy so cheap piece of mind insurance. relative to the $3kish(yeah i track trackday costs) i spend on track, not including repairs like the $4500 i spent last year to replace my broke trans and everything else i had access to when it was out. Don't be fooled into thinking you can run track days longterm without somethign on your car failing. If you run 7/10th a vette will last a LONG time. Once you get fast, anything on a race track breaks, including racecars, so street cars don't stand a great chance. It might last 10 trackdays it might last 100, but at the end of the day, you have to pay to play.

mammoth713

Thanks for the answers guys..I already have a Snell rated helmet so I should be good to go with that. I don't think I'm a complete novice but I definitely have a lot to learn.. I understand the line.. I can heel/toe on the street but when flying into a braking zone deep, I am sure I need to perfect that technique and will need to take it slow at first.

I have done autocross in the past (I know its different than road racing) and I rented a Ferrari f430 scud and an audi r8 in vegas on a track.

few more questions if you don't mind.
*I lowered the car all the way on the stock bolts after I purchased the car. Should I get an alignment?
*is it OK to have the car lowered all the way on stock bolts?(handling wise)
*what track equip do you use for seeing ur times and splits? I had one person recommend Harry's lap timer.
*how accurate is something like Harry's lap timer?

Thanks

0Anthony @ LGMotorsports

*Yes...get the car aligned and properly setup before you go.

*Yes...on stock bolts you still have shock travel and should not have any ill handling effects

*Don't worry about track times right now, get used to the car and learn the tracks. Once you are ok with that...you can do timing. Learn the line, learn the line, learn the line.....learn the car

Socko

harrys is pretty darn accurate, there are specifics on their webpage based on what hardware you run. But anything is within a few tenths. It is useful to look at over the next few days to understand where you were doing things right and wrong. I still haven't found time to analyze it at the track. It has a good splits tool you can monitor in car but I wouldn't bother with it for now, as stated above.

For the $20 for the app and the $50ish for a good mount its well worth it imo. If nothing else, just so you can look back and see how bad you are. Looking at my 12 season and 14 season laps back and forth its really interesting to see how much faster i am, and how and where i am making up speed. It is also proof, if you never go to a track day again, you can tell people you weren't always a waxer, and have the video to prove it.

When i bought my car it was all the way down on stock bolts and it was super sketchy on the street as i was constantly in the bumpstops, on track it likely would have been ok. I raised it.

If you adjusted it, you should likely go in for an alignment. Key is finding someone who you can trust and isn't lazy to get you the numbers you want.

mammoth713

I definitely want a lap timer of some sort. I am an engineer and I want real time data for feedback. No way for me to active improve without some real time numbers in front of me while driving the course..

I have a gopro camera and I'd like to overlay data on the video. I tried reading about it and I'm a bit confused.
What I have:
*android nexus 4 phone
*gopro hero4 silver

Questions:
*what is a good data collector? Harry's lap timer or racechrono?
*how do u overlay the data? I read about a software called racerender.
*do I need to buy a Bluetooth GPS unit for accurate timing?

Thanks

FAUEE

I use Gearzy lap timer and race chrono on my android It works well enough. Keep in mind, the data you collect will be entirely useless. You will get faster on each section of the track, every single lap, provided you don't get stuck in slow traffic. Your video is going to be more useful than your lap times, because your hands will be making the most mistakes initially. You're going to be likely to be sawing the wheel, over correcting, things like that.

Most groups explicitly do not allow lap timers in HPDE. Having a lap timer encourages people to push, which is NOT what DE is about. You're going to spend your first track session trying to remember what the flags mean and where the flaggers are, and forcing yourself to watch for them. Keep in mind, there's going to be a LOT of other cars out there on the track with you, most of which will not be as fast as your car, so you're going to have to be careful around them. You're going to have an instructor, who out of the kindness of his heart has agreed to let a total stranger drive them around at high speeds where there's a very real possibility of death. Most instructors will be OK with you running a timer lap in your phone in your pocket (so you can't see it), but I've heard of some who say not to look at the lap times until after the weekend is over.

IMO, the important part of DE is to remember that in no part of HPDE does the word "racing" appear. It's an educational class, and in DE 1 and 2, you're there to learn how to drive safely on a track, getting to go faster is just a beneficial side effect.