Deuce Man

So I am adding brake cooling to my '07 Z51. I already purchased the stock Z06 cooling ducts, and an now debating on the spindle mount kit I should get from Lambert. They have two options (neither of which require removal of the spindle from what I understand...not that it's overly difficuly, just nice to avoid knucke busting frustration when possible). The two options are called the "Touring" option and the "Competition" option.

I have attached photos of the two options,. First pic is the standard spindle mount kit, which everyone seems to be very familiar with and everyone seems to utilize. The second and third pics are of the "touring" option. When looking at the 3rd pic showing the touring option mounted, there appears to be a bracket in the way that would certainly interfere with airflow. Haven't taken the wheel off to see what that bracket is for myself (maybe someone already knows). But, I am just looking for opinion on if folks think the touring option is just a complete waste with limited effectivenss. The price difference between the two is $85 vs. $185. Should I spend the extra $100, or try the touring option?

(No need to dicuss hose options, already got tat covered through the wealth of knowledge already on the forum, thanks everyone!)

Deuce Man

Looks like I can only attached on pic at a time. Here is photo #2

Deuce Man

......photo #3.......

ErnieN85

I'm using the touring brackets they seem to actually put more air to the center of the disc. also if you use them take out or cut off the tab for the ABS connector and simply put the clip under the big hose clamp that way the bracket doesn't obstruct the air flow

Deuce Man

So that is the ABS sensor bracket. So I am assuming based on the location, it has to be moved withe either kit. That being the case (here comes the dumb question), I have no idea how the sensor works, does it matter where it's relocated to. I assume it tries to measure lock-up in the brakes.

ErnieN85

no that is just a plug that is on that bracket. you will see when you get in there. the sensor is internal to the hub.

Deuce Man

Now it's all maing sense. So did you cut your bracket off or remove it? Looks like the spindle needs pulled off to remove it?

ErnieN85

initially i cut them off them removed them when replacing the hubs

bdanyluk

My personal opinion.

I had the touring and really didn't notice any benefits.....I installed the race version, and I feel that I have more consistent braking.

Bottomline, don't waste money/time on touring option, just get the race version.

Rob Willis

I had the one in your very first post on both my 2011 GS and 2007. Worked well.

Just sold it to another forum member.

Bill Dearborn

The bracket holds the connector for the ABS sensor in the wheel bearing. You need to cut it off to install the race version as the tube occupies the space where the bracket is located. Just cut it off, do not try and save it by removing it. The support part of the bracket fits between the hub and the knuckle and acts as a spacer. If you remove that part the hub will move inwards the distance of the thickness of the plate and cause your rotors to be off center in the caliper.

Some of the other spindle duct designs fit between the hub and the knuckle and if you go with them you have to make sure they are the same thickness as the stock part you are removing.

If you look at your picture of the race version you will see an open area where the tube is welded to the ring. That tube faces to the inside of the wheel well and lets cooling air escape instead of forcing it into the center of the rotor. I use aluminized duct tape to close off the hole so the air goes through the rotor.

Bill

Deuce Man

Bill,
I assume you are talking about the section circled in yellow? You would think that part of the design would be intential...

I really wish there was more data (or any data) in how effective the cooling ducts actualy were. I have yet to experience noticable fade at the track (but I am sorta new at this stil), but I imagine my skill level will be to the point that brake cooling is a good idea, even if it just helps extend rotor life. I just struggle with understanding how the added backing plate adds much value to the brake cooling.

96CollectorSport

The backing plate helps by forcing the air through the vanes of the rotor - if you just aim the air at the back of the rotor with no backing plate then the air will just sort of bounce off and not be forced through the vanes of the rotor.
Forcing the air through the vanes will cool the whole rotor more evenly vs cooling just one section of the rotor at a given time.
That will help keep the rotor from cracking - one caution I would throw out there though - if you run when temps get below 50 degrees in the morning sessions you may think about taping off 1/2 of the brake ducts to keep the rotors from cooling too quickly - which leads to rotor cracking.

flash911

So Bill...I get that the ABS sensor bracket is there for spacing purposes and needs to remain. What do you do with the sensor plug if you mod the bracket: just let it hang on the inside or are you securing it some other way?

96GS#007

A couple zip ties are your friend

Hat_Trick_Hokie

Another benefit to the competition kit: is has heat shields for the lower ball joint and outer tie rod (the image above doesn't show the latest version with heat shields).

Zip tie it to the upright or lower control arm (I forget which one at the moment).

Deuce Man

So I decided to do a little research, and I found this Thesis written by an Engineering student.

https://researchbank.rmit.edu.au/ese...7/Stephens.pdf

It doesn't actually address cooling ducts themselves in the study, but here was an interesting comment on page 105:

"The axial temperature distribution measured also indicates that an insufficient vent area in the wheel may inhibit disc cooling. In almost all cases the temperature of the outboard disc surface was higher than the inboard disc surface. The temperature differences were even greater on the vented disc, as the air vents limit the heat conduction within the disc. Axial temperature differences were also observed, although only the inboard face of the disc was examined. It should be remembered that many aerodynamic cooling aids, such as used in motor racing only provide cooling to one side of the disc, this additional cooling could create temperature differences large enough to distort the disc."

So we are all using vented discs and not solid discs right? That being the case, in this study, the outside (visible when looking at the car driving down the road) was always hotter than the inside. I found that interesting. It got me thinking about the fact that any cooling duct is running air to the already coler side of the rotor. I get that it is pushing air through the vanes of the rotor, but I would think with a backing plate it would keep more cool air on the backside of the rotor, cooling it even more. THis makes me wonder if the "touring" edition wouldn't be a truly better option.

Any graduate engineering students out there intersed in a topic for a thesis paper? I would love to see this study continued specific to brake cooling ducts, and the potential effectivenss and disadvantages. I hear a lot of folks in this forum and others stating that the backing plate is needed to push air through the rotor vanes, but I would just love to see the data to back it up. (My undergrad was in Mechanical Engineering, so I always want to see the data on this stuff.....it's a scary problem to have, I don't wish it upon anyone).

flash911

Bill Dearborn

There is a spring clip on the connector housing. It is used to clip the connector to the bracket that was just cut off. I use it to fasten the connector to the ABS harness retainer bracket behind the hub. The bracket is the little half moon shaped black item the harness is pushed into. There is just enough room (if you are careful) to clip the connector between the harness and the back of the hub. Fastening it there gets the connector out of the way and keeps it from going someplace you don't want it to go.

Bill

Bill Dearborn

The ducts we are talking about here do have a little bit of that issue. if you compare them to ducts from LG or others you will quickly notice the tube outlet is mounted further out radially thus blowing more on the rotor side Vs center hole. When I used LG ducts on my C5 they put more air into the center of the rotor and did not have the vent toward the rear of the wheel. However, the LG and similar ducts require installation between the hub mounting flange and the knuckle so the ABS bracket has to be removed to maintain the proper relationship between the caliper and the rotor.

There are pluses and minuses for each setup. The Lambert units provide shields for the tie rod ends and ball joints whereas the other units don't. With the LG units I had a choice of size. I could have had 3 inch tubes and hoses Vs the 4 inch ones that I went with. One comment about 4 inch hoses. They are harder to come by and are more expensive to replace when they wear out and they are much stiffer thus putting more torque on the duct plates when you turn the wheels in and out.

Bill