Track preparations?
#41
Instructor
Thread Starter
#43
Burning Brakes
My first time at a HDPE event I never took my C6 out of 4th gear. It was all about learning how to drive the line and not about getting to speed and braking late and hard into a corner.
That's possibly why they didn't recommend a brake fluid change.
That's possibly why they didn't recommend a brake fluid change.
#44
Burning Brakes
Here is a long winded answer to why I agree with your shop - first few times out leave the car totally stock - especially for FATT events:
First time at a FATT event you will be in group 1 instructed. Part of the day will be spent on a skidpad (in a crown vic! - its a blast). FATT's instructional program is like no other in the area. It is much more thourough and organized when it comes to monitoring and keeping track of student experience, ability and progress. Each student has an evaluation card. Each instructor must sign it and enter ratings and so forth after each session. All records are kept for the long term (from event to event). In order to move up a run group you must get all 5s on the eval card in latest session and have a check ride with another instructor. No other event organizer I've dealt with even comes close to this level of tracking student progress.
BSR (the company who runs FATT) has a ridgid instructor training program. The instructors must pass a driving test against the clock and, thru a series of on track exercises, demonstrate profficency in communication, error correction, technique, etc.
In practice what this means is, as a student, you have to play by FATTs rules, follow direction and 'check all the boxes' in order to advance. Much more so than other groups.
This is a very long way of saying that in group 1 FATT you will not be allowed to exceed the capabilities of the stock components - including fluid and pads of your car. The instructors will keep you in check, they simply don't tolerate aggressive behavior or over driving the car.
We are talking a brand new Vette here. Can a very advanced driver exceed the limits of the stock fluid and pads....? Sure, I have no doubt that with extended lapping that brake fade may occur. But a Novice and especially a Novice attending a FATT event....no way. It would be highly unlikely.
So, I agree with your Shop - keep it stock for now. In fact, I'd even appreciate their answer - in a world where so many are looking for a quick buck with little regard to consequences here is a shop who is giving you sage advice and not even collecting a fee for it.
First time at a FATT event you will be in group 1 instructed. Part of the day will be spent on a skidpad (in a crown vic! - its a blast). FATT's instructional program is like no other in the area. It is much more thourough and organized when it comes to monitoring and keeping track of student experience, ability and progress. Each student has an evaluation card. Each instructor must sign it and enter ratings and so forth after each session. All records are kept for the long term (from event to event). In order to move up a run group you must get all 5s on the eval card in latest session and have a check ride with another instructor. No other event organizer I've dealt with even comes close to this level of tracking student progress.
BSR (the company who runs FATT) has a ridgid instructor training program. The instructors must pass a driving test against the clock and, thru a series of on track exercises, demonstrate profficency in communication, error correction, technique, etc.
In practice what this means is, as a student, you have to play by FATTs rules, follow direction and 'check all the boxes' in order to advance. Much more so than other groups.
This is a very long way of saying that in group 1 FATT you will not be allowed to exceed the capabilities of the stock components - including fluid and pads of your car. The instructors will keep you in check, they simply don't tolerate aggressive behavior or over driving the car.
We are talking a brand new Vette here. Can a very advanced driver exceed the limits of the stock fluid and pads....? Sure, I have no doubt that with extended lapping that brake fade may occur. But a Novice and especially a Novice attending a FATT event....no way. It would be highly unlikely.
So, I agree with your Shop - keep it stock for now. In fact, I'd even appreciate their answer - in a world where so many are looking for a quick buck with little regard to consequences here is a shop who is giving you sage advice and not even collecting a fee for it.
#45
Instructor
Thread Starter
And this is in Northern VA; not MD.
#46
Drifting
My feeling is that you are always better off over prepping than coming up short. Same as preparing for the crash, not the ride or over dressing because you can always take off your tie or jacket if it isn't needed but much harder to put on if you arrive without it.
Why would anyone not flush their brake fluid. Its cheap, easy, and not a detriment if you never do another HPDE again. Much better off than finding that you have an issue when you're on the track. You will be over 100 mph even on your first lap. If for your first time on the track you overbrake all over the track, who knows. Odds may be that its not needed but its cheap insurance.
Same for motor oil, cheap and easy so why not. Chances are you're not going to be getting the motor cooking hot your first time out, but again who knows.
My first track event was a FATT back in 2000 when my car was just past break-in. The car was 100% stock but I did flush with ATE brake fluid, fresh oil - overfilled by a qt. Also had extra oil, tire pressure gauge, torque wrench, air tank and various "just in case" tools. Unless their format has changed, you'll get four sessions on the track (same as most HPDEs), as well as a session (maybe two I can't remember) on the skid pad in their car. My instructor was fantastic. I'm certainly not close to being the fastest guy out there on my first day I was far from being the slowest. While the every system on the car won't be pushed to its limit, it will be given a workout. Who knows how you'll do. If you show the skill and confidence, they won't hold you back.
After my first FATT I did a weekend at WGI. After that is when I decided it was time to improve the brakes. After the brakes I did a weekend at VIR, then back to WGI and by that point my stock tires were bald at less than 5k miles.
So for cheap $ buy the insurance of good brake fluid and fresh oil.
Why would anyone not flush their brake fluid. Its cheap, easy, and not a detriment if you never do another HPDE again. Much better off than finding that you have an issue when you're on the track. You will be over 100 mph even on your first lap. If for your first time on the track you overbrake all over the track, who knows. Odds may be that its not needed but its cheap insurance.
Same for motor oil, cheap and easy so why not. Chances are you're not going to be getting the motor cooking hot your first time out, but again who knows.
My first track event was a FATT back in 2000 when my car was just past break-in. The car was 100% stock but I did flush with ATE brake fluid, fresh oil - overfilled by a qt. Also had extra oil, tire pressure gauge, torque wrench, air tank and various "just in case" tools. Unless their format has changed, you'll get four sessions on the track (same as most HPDEs), as well as a session (maybe two I can't remember) on the skid pad in their car. My instructor was fantastic. I'm certainly not close to being the fastest guy out there on my first day I was far from being the slowest. While the every system on the car won't be pushed to its limit, it will be given a workout. Who knows how you'll do. If you show the skill and confidence, they won't hold you back.
After my first FATT I did a weekend at WGI. After that is when I decided it was time to improve the brakes. After the brakes I did a weekend at VIR, then back to WGI and by that point my stock tires were bald at less than 5k miles.
So for cheap $ buy the insurance of good brake fluid and fresh oil.
#47
I'm pretty sure I responded to this effect before but here are my thoughts (again?). I drove my C7 Z51 to VIR and did two days without turning a wrench on it. It did fine other than tearing up the tires.
However, what I have been told is that if you have an engine failure on track and the car is still running 5W30 then it could be grounds to deny the warranty claim. The owners manual is pretty clear to put 15W50 in before track duty so I would definitely recommend doing that at a minimum. You likely won't have a problem and you also might get away with the warranty claim if you (GM has generally been pretty good about this in my experience). However, getting the oil change is cheap insurance and you can just leave it since we're heading in to Spring (today's snow aside).
I still think an alignment is a good idea since mine was really bad from the factory and did prematurely wear out the tires. You might have better luck.
I'd be less concerned about the brake fluid at this point.
Last chance to join us this weekend at SP with the Audi Club.
However, what I have been told is that if you have an engine failure on track and the car is still running 5W30 then it could be grounds to deny the warranty claim. The owners manual is pretty clear to put 15W50 in before track duty so I would definitely recommend doing that at a minimum. You likely won't have a problem and you also might get away with the warranty claim if you (GM has generally been pretty good about this in my experience). However, getting the oil change is cheap insurance and you can just leave it since we're heading in to Spring (today's snow aside).
I still think an alignment is a good idea since mine was really bad from the factory and did prematurely wear out the tires. You might have better luck.
I'd be less concerned about the brake fluid at this point.
Last chance to join us this weekend at SP with the Audi Club.
#49
Instructor
Thread Starter
Following up to all on the day before my FATT event. I appreciate everyone's great advice and did end up taking my car to Curry's in Leesburg to get a "second opinion." Oh my God, what a dramatic difference between Curry's and "the other place." These guys live and breath high performance expertise. My Stingray is on the lift right now, during which Andrew brought me onto the floor to show me the factory alignment. Off by a mile. Andrew also had a wealth of insightful and detailed advise about the car, the track, high performance driving in general, and many other pearls of wisdom.
Bottom line: I am SO glad I followed up and took my car to Curry's before FATT. I am far more confident and educated because of it, and my car is much better prepared.
Thanks again, friends!
Bottom line: I am SO glad I followed up and took my car to Curry's before FATT. I am far more confident and educated because of it, and my car is much better prepared.
Thanks again, friends!