Non FIA approved seats for HPDE?
02-22-2015, 07:03 PM
#1
Instructor
Thread Starter
Non FIA approved seats for HPDE?
Hello all,
As the glaciers start to recede back to harsh north of Ontario I am looking forward to my first track day at The Glen on the 20th of April with Hooked on Driving. As I get things squared away I can't seem to find an answer as to if my Corbeau A4 seats will be safe and allowed to have in my car, I have the stock seatbelts presently but hopefully will have a proper 4 point half cage installed by then with fittings for a 5 point harness.
Can anyone enlighten me as to if I should be looking for one or more FIA approved seats to swap out for HPDE days?
As the glaciers start to recede back to harsh north of Ontario I am looking forward to my first track day at The Glen on the 20th of April with Hooked on Driving. As I get things squared away I can't seem to find an answer as to if my Corbeau A4 seats will be safe and allowed to have in my car, I have the stock seatbelts presently but hopefully will have a proper 4 point half cage installed by then with fittings for a 5 point harness.
Can anyone enlighten me as to if I should be looking for one or more FIA approved seats to swap out for HPDE days?
02-22-2015, 07:20 PM
#2
Melting Slicks
You're fine, A4's are decent seats (as long as they are securely mounted).
In fact even at an SCCA event, the only criteria is "Securely Mounted".
If you install a 4 point rollbar with a cross bar for your harness, it would be a good idea to install a support from the back of the seat to the harness bar (for a rollbar only, not for a stand alone harness bar).
Bill - SCCA Chief of Tech
In fact even at an SCCA event, the only criteria is "Securely Mounted".
If you install a 4 point rollbar with a cross bar for your harness, it would be a good idea to install a support from the back of the seat to the harness bar (for a rollbar only, not for a stand alone harness bar).
Bill - SCCA Chief of Tech
02-22-2015, 11:36 PM
#3
Instructor
Thread Starter
You're fine, A4's are decent seats (as long as they are securely mounted).
In fact even at an SCCA event, the only criteria is "Securely Mounted".
If you install a 4 point rollbar with a cross bar for your harness, it would be a good idea to install a support from the back of the seat to the harness bar (for a rollbar only, not for a stand alone harness bar).
Bill - SCCA Chief of Tech
In fact even at an SCCA event, the only criteria is "Securely Mounted".
If you install a 4 point rollbar with a cross bar for your harness, it would be a good idea to install a support from the back of the seat to the harness bar (for a rollbar only, not for a stand alone harness bar).
Bill - SCCA Chief of Tech
02-23-2015, 09:12 AM
#4
Melting Slicks
Yep, its actually required in a race car to pass tech (but not for HPDE) on seats that don't meet the FIA.Standard.8862-2009 or higher.
In a rear impact, composite and aluminum seats will flew backward and 6 point harness will loosen up (sometimes a lot).
You can fab one that's adjustable.
Brey Krause (the roll bar guys) makes a really nice one but it's pricy.
I/O Port makes one for around $110
02-23-2015, 10:57 AM
#5
Racer
For a dedicated track/race car, I'm a fan of FIA seats. They're designed to have some give and flex to attenuate impact forces. Non-FIA seats (steel frame, aluminum, etc) aren't bad but, to me, they generally aren't as comfortable and there is an added risk of unplanned distortion vs. the FIA stuff.
If you do a seat back brace, please make sure to add a large spreader plate where it touches the seat. The larger the spreader, the more area to take the impact load.
As to the original question, I haven't run with any DE Orgs that require aftermarket seats to be FIA certified.
02-23-2015, 11:29 AM
#6
Also for some reason that Im sure one of the more experienced members here will know, FIA seats are not allowed to be used past a certain "expiration" date; even if you add the back support, but there is no time reg against non fia seats if they have the back support...
02-23-2015, 11:47 AM
#7
Racer
Also for some reason that Im sure one of the more experienced members here will know, FIA seats are not allowed to be used past a certain "expiration" date; even if you add the back support, but there is no time reg against non fia seats if they have the back support...
IIRC, there's not an expiration date for FIA seats with SCCA (though one has been debated). As a result, no seat back brace is required with FIA seats. NASA ages out FIA seats after 5 years but I thought you could add a seat back brace and continue running the seat.
All the above is off the cuff and how I remember the rules the last time I looked at them. If I mis-spoke, someone please correct me.
02-23-2015, 11:56 AM
#8
Racer
Maybe it's just me, but a seat back brace against a composite seat back scares the hell outta me, even with a larger plate to spread the load. I have seen them on Butler and Kirkeys and think that's a great idea, but on a composite? 
Of course, I could be wrong...
Of course, I could be wrong...
02-23-2015, 12:01 PM
#9
Racer
I agree with you 10000000%. I've run SCCA club racing on and off for the last ~10 years and there have been 2 (IIRC) proposals during that time to mandate a seat back brace for composite seats. Thankfully they were both modified and, last I checked, there's no requirement for one but it still astounds me that it's even a discussion. The FIA doesn't require one, doesn't test with one, and the manufacturers of the seats even recommend AGAINST them.
02-23-2015, 01:44 PM
#10
Melting Slicks
Depends on the club/org as not all are the same.
IIRC, there's not an expiration date for FIA seats with SCCA (though one has been debated). As a result, no seat back brace is required with FIA seats. NASA ages out FIA seats after 5 years but I thought you could add a seat back brace and continue running the seat.
All the above is off the cuff and how I remember the rules the last time I looked at them. If I mis-spoke, someone please correct me.
IIRC, there's not an expiration date for FIA seats with SCCA (though one has been debated). As a result, no seat back brace is required with FIA seats. NASA ages out FIA seats after 5 years but I thought you could add a seat back brace and continue running the seat.
All the above is off the cuff and how I remember the rules the last time I looked at them. If I mis-spoke, someone please correct me.
So, older FIA seats do require a brace.
Newer FIA seats are much stronger.
Personally, if I had an older seat or something like an A4, I'd put in a brace. If I had a 2009 FIA, probably not.
But the cars I play with have bead seats.
02-23-2015, 01:54 PM
#11
Racer
9.3.41. SEATS
The driver’s seat shall be a one-piece bucket-type seat and shall be securely
mounted. The back of the seat shall be firmly attached to the
main roll hoop, or its cross bracing, so as to provide aft and lateral support.
Seats that have been homologated to and mounted in accordance
with FIA standard 8855-1999, or seats that have been certified to FIA.
Standard.8862-2009 or higher need not have the seat back attached to
the roll structure. Seats with a back not attached to the main roll hoop
or its cross bracing may be mounted on runners only if they were part
of the FIA homologated seats assembly specified in an FIA homologated
race car. The homologation labels must be visible. Seat supports shall be
of the type listed on FIA technical list No.12 or No. 40 (lateral, bottom,
etc). Passenger seat back–if a folding seat, it shall be securely bolted or
strapped in place.
The driver’s seat shall be a one-piece bucket-type seat and shall be securely
mounted. The back of the seat shall be firmly attached to the
main roll hoop, or its cross bracing, so as to provide aft and lateral support.
Seats that have been homologated to and mounted in accordance
with FIA standard 8855-1999, or seats that have been certified to FIA.
Standard.8862-2009 or higher need not have the seat back attached to
the roll structure. Seats with a back not attached to the main roll hoop
or its cross bracing may be mounted on runners only if they were part
of the FIA homologated seats assembly specified in an FIA homologated
race car. The homologation labels must be visible. Seat supports shall be
of the type listed on FIA technical list No.12 or No. 40 (lateral, bottom,
etc). Passenger seat back–if a folding seat, it shall be securely bolted or
strapped in place.
Edit & PS:
I'm not a fan of seat back braces as they're something that can range from relatively safe to extremely dangerous depending on the design, application, and installation. Even those that appear safe may not be in crash and without crash testing you'll never know how the brace will actually perform.
Last edited by Xian; 02-23-2015 at 01:57 PM.
03-02-2015, 02:11 PM
#13
Race Director
Member Since: Oct 2000
Location: Deal's Gap 2004 NCM Motorsports track supporter
Posts: 13,915
Received 1,103 Likes
on
717 Posts
To the OP, unless you have a gazillion mirrors on your car or a spotter over looking the whole track, I would steer clear of seats with halo wings for HDPE. I use a hybrid brace and a sparco seat as it allows for more visibility and the hybrid supports neck in side impact as well as front on.
03-02-2015, 03:55 PM
#14
Race Director
IMO, it depends on your appetite for risk. The A4 may be just fine in a wreck (track or street). Or it might break at the recline mechanism and leave you paralyzed - there's no independent test data that says it won't, just a "well I've never heard of it happen yet".
I chose to go FIA certified. The slight cost increase for seats is a lot less than a hospital trip, or a lifetime of issues. Just my opinion.
FWIW, FIA seats only have to be current for racing, not HPDE or TT if you're running with NASA. I can't speak for the other groups.
I chose to go FIA certified. The slight cost increase for seats is a lot less than a hospital trip, or a lifetime of issues. Just my opinion.
FWIW, FIA seats only have to be current for racing, not HPDE or TT if you're running with NASA. I can't speak for the other groups.
02-24-2022, 10:21 AM
#15
Race Director
Modern factory seats, airbags, ballistic seat belts are extremely safe. However, they give virtually no support at the track. Unless you go all out, 6 point belts, Head & Neck Restraints, side impact restraints, you are actually probably safer doing nothing.
Don't get me wrong, I'd never track a car more than once or twice without Harnesses, but doing it half-assed could disable factory systems making the overall safety a downgrade.
Don't get me wrong, I'd never track a car more than once or twice without Harnesses, but doing it half-assed could disable factory systems making the overall safety a downgrade.
02-25-2022, 08:12 AM
#16
Safe and allowed are two different things... it's your butt in the seat. Corvettes have amazing speed potential and sometimes s&$t happens on racetracks that are out of your control ie dropped fluids.
I didn't like the looks of the A4s I bought used and resold them.
If you're planning to track the car regularly I would get the best safety equipment you can afford, anything less is adding unnecessary risk.
I didn't like the looks of the A4s I bought used and resold them.
If you're planning to track the car regularly I would get the best safety equipment you can afford, anything less is adding unnecessary risk.