Fulton 1

I will be installing Essex's Endurance front brake setup (thanks so much for all of your help, Jeff) on my '02 C5Z in the next month or so. While it's apart I'm adding ZR1 knuckles and SKF hubs w/ARP studs all around. At this point I'm planning on purchasing new upper and lower ball joint nuts (both are noted with a torque + angle in the service manual so I'm assuming they are TTY and the originals shouldn't be re-used). Is there any other hardware or fasteners that I should consider replacing at this time?

Over the years I've seen folks recommend replacing the axle nuts (I'm assuming I will have to pull apart the rear and would prefer to have parts on hand if needed), but have never done it on my street cars. For a few bucks it seems like a good idea for a car that sees track duty, right? What about the hub bolts? I know Hardbar/Van Steel were/are selling a setup with 12-pts and Nord-Locks a while back, but I've seen mixed reviews. Thinking about just erring on the side of caution and replacing the hub bolts using OEM parts, but if there is a viable upgrade out there then I'm open.

Basically, I'm looking for any advice or feedback from those of you that have been there/done that that may have recommendations as to which hardware I should replace while I've got this all apart.

FWIW, the part numbers that I have are as follows:

Lower BJ nuts (F/R) - 10282253
Upper BJ nuts (F/R) - 3537772
Hub bolts - 10414261
Axle nuts - 10257766

If anything looks out of whack there please let me know...

Thanks and appreciate any input.

froggy47

Well I'll probably get some push back on this but so, here we go.

I've reused all those on my car. My rule is if the threads are good I carefully clean the old loctite (or whatever GM uses) and reapply thread locker and torque 'em up.

Here is where someone will post that the bolts stretch (never heard anyone say the nuts stretch)



Yes they do. I would not reuse head bolts or some other torque to yield bolts (crank bolt), but the ones you mention, I would - here is the caveat - once. The second time I'd replace.

As for NordLock's it's a cool design. I thought hey, they hold and you don't have to put as much torque on them. Well , I looked up on their web site for certain sizes & guess what, they tell you to torque them damn near the same as without Nordlock, so what have you gained except an expensive lock washer, I got some & used them b4 I knew that.

If you argue it's cheap enough, actually the dealer ones are really not that cheap, at full dealer price you probably have near $100 of fasteners there.

I could replace my lug nuts every time I change out wheels (which is a LOT) and they ARE cheap. They get torqued a LOT more often than the ones you are talking about. I do them once a year, use napa steel or equivalent - they all come from the Far East now anway.

So you should do what you conclude after reading the thread, but that's my 2 cent's, send it to my PayPal account.



PS: Been a few years & a lot of autox/track events since I took my corners off (they have all been off - watch my videos) and nothing has come loose.

PPS: If someone who SELLS them tells you to replace them EVERY TIME, well you get my point.

Fulton 1

Thanks for the feedback, froggy. You make some good points. I'll send that 2 cents marked as a gift so there's no paypal fee

It has been my understanding that when the service manual calls for a torque plus an angle of rotation then the implication is that the fastener is being stretched to yield. This is the case for the upper and lower ball joint nuts, so I'm okay with replacing those. The rest of the hardware that I listed would appear to be re-usable based on that tightening to yield criterion.

The thing is that the car is now 13 years old and as far as I know this is the first time the knuckles will have been off the car. I'm mostly just trying to make sure that I address everything that could be a concern (within reason of course) while I'm in there. I think other than the hardware and doing the hubs at the same time as the knuckles that I'm not overlooking anything major, but I was just looking for a sanity check more than anything.

JerryTX

Hub Bolts I'd replace with OEM after the second use. Nordlocks are great but the value of them is not being able to run a lower torque value, that has nothing to do with it: it is all about not having the bolts back out.

UstaB-GS549

I see no reason to replace a bolt that has not been torqued to yield.

In the case of ball joint studs, I think the reason they have a torque and then an angle is that the torque seats the taper and the angle prevents over-torquing. With a taper on the stud it will stretch the aluminum.

froggy47

I agree with that, it's just that I got bad information when I first looked into this (from a vendor) that you could use less torque.

froggy47

I agree also, the torque spec on ball joint nuts is pretty LOW for the size of the fastener.

ErnieN85

I have been reusing mine as long as the threads are good.
as to the twelve points, the bottom one from Hardbar doesn't go in far enoug to properly clear the nut on the lower ball joint so it is a real pain to redo the lower joint the next time
So I for one am using the stock bolts next time

Fulton 1

Appreciate all the feedback, guys. I think you have steered me toward just saving a few bucks and re-using the original parts if they still look good. I tend to be conservative (i.e. replace if there's a question) with this kind of stuff, but after brakes, hubs, tires, and new wheels the 2015 HPDE budget has already taken a serious beating so everything counts

Question: any reason why I couldn't use Nord-Locks with the OEM hub bolts? At this point I'm thinking that less might be more, but if there's a tangible gain then I'm interested.

froggy47

I guess if you are the guy that wakes up in he middle of the night worrying that a hub is going to fall off, it would be worth some peace of mind.

For myself, I decided it was just an extra cost for "fancy" lock nuts.

Vendors love to sell you some though. Nothing against our great vendors, don't get me wrong.



I could see using some on a part that take 10 hours of labor to get to the fastener, and I did not want to use red locktite for some reason, but hubs are pretty easy.

ErnieN85

I'm just torquing them down. Thought i might use some blue loctite next time.

froggy47

UstaB-GS549

Torqued is torqued. If you really needed Nordlocks, the factory would have put them on the car.

Think about it. Have you ever seen a Nordlock or any other type of lock washer on a connecting rod bolt?

flash911

I agree, but...if you're talking about the hub bolts, the factory uses their secret sauce loctite. First time install of brand new SKF hubs and bolts took alot of muscle to turn the bolt. I got concerned and chased the threads.

I also believe there is a higher grade bolt (black oxide) for newer C6 ZR1s over std C5/6 coupes?

It's stuff like this that makes me want to buy the factory service manual...

Fulton 1

FWIW, the factory manual doesn't really have much to say on the matter of hub bolts either other than specifying to tighten them to 96 lb-ft. It does not mention replacing them or anything else out of the ordinary.