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Car is stock C7 Z07 Stage 3 - haven't done a thing to it yet, but have a few events in my area coming up. Read a handful of threads in the Z06 section, but figured this section might give me more answers. I plan to take the car to the track 5-10 times a year doing various HPDEs, TTs, Tracknights, etc. Looking for opinions on the following:
Lowering - few have said lowering the car on stock bolts (which is what I'd do) is not smart for tracking as the tires rub even at factory settings. Love to drop it down a little as the tire gaps are pretty ugly, but not at the expense of lap times or, worse, safety.
Oil and fluids - 15W seems to be the go to for oil. Is that OK for all driving - I've seen some guys say they change oil after each track day back to 5W and then to 15W for their next outing - seems like too much work, 15W should be fine for street driving as well, right? What other fluids should I upgrade, and how often?
Alignment - obviously track alignment will be best and I've read that even with the track alignment, tire wear is not that bad, if even noticeable. With any tracking, my sticky cups will most likely be toast sooner than later, so I'm not even sure if I should care about premature wear.
Wheels - As I'm not 100% sure how long I will have this car, I'm not sure I want to drop $4k-$5k on some lightweight wheels, but I'm not a huge fan of the stock wheels and wouldn't mind some lighter rotating mass. Is the weight difference significant for a set of Forgelines or the like? I'm open for recommendations on other brands. Save for any offroad activity, are wheels relatively safe at the track, or do they take a beating?
Safety - I would love to buy a race seat, harness bar, and belts that are easily swappable with my stock seat, but I can't find an easy solution. Please help.
Car protection - Any reason not to use painter's tape to protect the car, or is that ghetto or d**chey? Does it work? What should I cover?
Obviously some pretty newbie questions, but I've read so many conflicting opinions, I'm getting confused.
Unless you already have vast track experience, I would recommend that you just "drive it" and get some seat time absolutely stock, before you make any modifications. I drive with a mostly "track oriented" alignment on the street and find that (for me) it does not make to big a problem with tire wear IF you do not use toe OUT. Toe on a street car should remain at zero "0" for good tire wear. Lowering should only be done in conjunction with cross weighting and corner balancing, and to the recommendations of the owner's manual for track usage. JMHO
As a novice you will be far below the car's performance level especially in corners. That means you will be slowing sooner for corners and not carrying as much speed through them with a consequential reduction in corner exit speed. That will affect the speeds you will attain on the straights. This is a mental thing that everybody has to go through and the car's performance aids don't help a bit in conquering the inner fear. Only hours of practice can do that.
First, DO NOT lower the car. You may decide you want to do that later but by then you will know how much to lower. As low as you can go isn't necessarily the correct thing to do. On C5s GM recommended not dropping anymore than a half inch since more than that put the car into the bump stops on hard bumpy corners. When that happened the car went from whatever spring rate was being provided by the springs to an infinite spring rate and unpredictable handling changes could result. A C7Z will have similar constraints. Lowering beyond a certain amount may require substituting aftermarket parts in place of stock parts so you don't hit unexpected limits.
Second, GM says to change the oil to the 15W50 for track events and to change it out for the street. Even though you may not be running the car to its ultimate performance envelope you will definitely be using a lot more Wide Open Throttle than any street or drag race operation. This generates a lot more heat with subsequent higher oil temps which makes the oil thinner. Oil temps can be 50 to 80 degrees higher than what you see on the street. In mid 80 degree ambient temps my C6Z track oil temp is right around 260 deg. on the street it runs between 180 and 190. Using an oil that behaves like a 50 weight oil at temperature is better than using an oil that behaves like 30 weight oil at temperature.
Do flush the brake fluid and get a high temp fluid so you have a reduced chance of boiling the brake fluid. Some novices tend to use the brakes more so boiled fluid can be an issue. Look for a fluid that has a dry boiling point and have it put in a few days before the event. It doesn't matter whether it is DOT3 or DOT4 as long as it has a high dry boiling point. Ford Super Duty Brake Fluid or whatever they call it now is a low cost readily available DOT3 fluid with a 500 deg dry boiling point which outperforms most of the auto store DOT4 stuff. It used to be rated at 550 deg and was known as the best kept secret in racing. When Ford lowered the rating I switched to Wilwood 570 and now use Wilwood 600+ which has a dry boiling point above 600 deg.
A track alignment can reduce the wear on the outside edges of the tires but I think you might be best served by sticking with the GM service settings so you don't have to change back and forth. The only issue with the GM alignment specs is they have a plus/minus tolerance that is wide enough to drive a freight train through sideways so you can get an alignment guy who shoots for green readings on the machine and not set the alignment to the center of the tolerance. You need a person who will spend time to set the alignment appropriately.
Don't spend time on worrying about light weight wheels. You are a long way from having enough experience to feel the difference. Anything you choose now would more than likely be not what you might want at some later time. Also after dumping that kind of money on those kinds of wheels you want to be able to resell them some time later and recoup some of the cost. I use stock C6Z wheels on the street and a set of CCW wheels on the track. You don't buy track wheels for looks you buy them for performance if they look good for the same price that is a side benefit.
Do you have the Competition seats? Both the standard and optional seats provide increased lateral support over the previous generation seats. As a novice you should be able to get sufficient lateral support out of the standard seat by using the stock seat belt's cinch feature correctly. When on track you want the belt as tight as hell not slack like street drivers want. That means running the seat back all the way to the rear of its travel, pulling the stock belt out until you get it into cinch mode and then fastening it. The grab/pull/push slack in the belt so you can get it into the take up reel. When you have the belt as tight as you can get it then run the seat forward until you are in your driving position. If you do this correctly you will feel like the lap belt is going to cut you in two at your pelvis and the shoulder belt should be tight enough to restrict chest movement if you start breathing hard. You may still need to use your knees as braces to keep your upper and lower body from swivveling around the lap belt but your butt will stay planted in the seat. To indicate how tight the belt should be when I have a passenger in my C6Z at a track event with stock seats in the car I will set them up like I described above but I will grab the shoulder belt from outside the car and use my full body weight to pull it tight and get the slack into the take up reel in the B pillar. As they say, "This ain't no Kiddy Ride."
Car protection. Those Cup tires will throw stones all over the side of the car. I use a combination of Scotch 233+ Green painters tape and Collision Wrap. You can find it in some auto parts stores but I usually go to a body repair supply store to get the tape. They may also have the Collision Wrap as well but you can get it On Line. An 18 inch wide 100 ft long roll can be purchased for about $50. I can get a season of events out of it. The collision wrap is just laid out on the car. I start at the front wheel well and go the rear wheel well, cut it off and smooth it on the side of the car. Once it is on the car I use a razor blade to trim it up and cut out the door and rear brake vent openings. Then I use the green tape to hold the edges so they don't get caught in the high speed air alongside the car. Getting across the front fascia is a little tricky due to all of the irregularities but it is doable. The material is 3 mils thick, can take some pretty good abuse and I have left it on the car for 10 days and had no trouble getting it off. The green tape works better than blue tape especially in a wet environment and can be left on for quite a while as well but there is a chance that you may have to clean adhesive off the car when you remove it.
My avatar shows what my C6Z looked like with the green tape used on the fascia. That took a long time to apply 2 inches at a time and that is why I went to the collision wrap.
Here is what it looked like after going to Collision Wrap.
Bill
Last edited by Bill Dearborn; 04-06-2015 at 02:44 PM.
I just watched a bone stock C7Z turn a 1:58.2 at Thunderhill over the crows nest on Supersport tires and it's an automatic. Seems to me that that car doesn't need a lot of mods to be quicker than most drivers.
Let's pretend I'm not a complete novice. While this is the first track experience with my own car, it will not be the first time on a track. I've done a handful of AMG and PCA events and completed the 3 and 2 day racing schools with my boy Skippy. That being known, doesn't it make more sense to properly set the car up for the track from day 1, so I get a feel for the car's handling right off the bat? Don't get me wrong - I ain't stupid - I know I'm not setting any track records until I get some serious track time under my belt in the car. I just want to get it set up for the track and call it good so long as there isn't a huge sacrifice for street use.
Let's pretend I'm not a complete novice. While this is the first track experience with my own car, it will not be the first time on a track. I've done a handful of AMG and PCA events and completed the 3 and 2 day racing schools with my boy Skippy. That being known, doesn't it make more sense to properly set the car up for the track from day 1, so I get a feel for the car's handling right off the bat? Don't get me wrong - I ain't stupid - I know I'm not setting any track records until I get some serious track time under my belt in the car. I just want to get it set up for the track and call it good so long as there isn't a huge sacrifice for street use.
Follow Bill's advice. He is Jedi master and taught many of us.
We understand you are not a complete novice. Oil, brake fluid, alignment. That's all you need. Do not lower the car. Belts and seats will depend on the organization who run your track day.
Have a blast but respect the force - in your case C7
Z06 with 650hp.
If you have a qualified instructor, offer them a chance to drive your beast. Your call, but you will make a friend.
Let's pretend I'm not a complete novice. While this is the first track experience with my own car, it will not be the first time on a track. I've done a handful of AMG and PCA events and completed the 3 and 2 day racing schools with my boy Skippy. That being known, doesn't it make more sense to properly set the car up for the track from day 1, so I get a feel for the car's handling right off the bat? Don't get me wrong - I ain't stupid - I know I'm not setting any track records until I get some serious track time under my belt in the car. I just want to get it set up for the track and call it good so long as there isn't a huge sacrifice for street use.
well, with that in mind it seems that about the only thing your car could use is to make sure the alignment is correct notably the rear caster setting. with the right specs in hand you might get a really good race shop to check your setup, after that provided you skill levels are up to it. possibly more cooling for the trans & differential
have fun and be careful with that beast!
Bill,
I never looked closely at your avartar, I always glimpsed over it and just thought you had a neat custom paint job. I was never more disappointed than when I just read it was painters tape...
I wish I had some good advice for the C7 Z, but with the Z07 package i am just plain jealous.....I would die for the chance to take that on the track! Godd luck and have fun!
Knowing how fast my c5z is on rivals on track, not super sticky sport cups. Unless you are running in the advanced group you will undoubtedly be held up on track in novice or intermediate (where i am assuming you will run)if you have a some track experience.
Even if money isn't a concern, I would still run at least a day or 2 before I invested money in it, as spending money on things that are counter productive makes me angry. It is easy to do when you are running a car that is so damn fast stock.
Oil, brake fluid, and run it. Give it a few shake downs before Gm decides you voided the warranty by doing x y or z.
I agree with Bill on the tape. I did it on my sti when it was brand new as subaru paint is terrible. It took a LONG time. I bought my c5 used and it has some paint chips/marks already so meh. Corvette paint is tough, mostly you will see lots of rubber marks if you keep it on track. As long as you get them off the same week they come off without a huge amount of effort generally. Takes less time then taping the car.
A seat isn't a bad investment imo as having belts and a hans is worth something for personal safety.
Dont get a race suit, its douchie! Shoes are a good idea imo. I still have some piloti street shoes that have the nice heels on them, as they are harder to get now if i started today it would be worth buying something with a good heel, if not my heels hurt after driving to and from the track and spending 1.5-2 hours on track in a day.
Buy a decent helmet imo. 1 pound less makes a huge difference, as some of my track buddies have fairly pricey helmets(still under $1k) and they are very nice. When i buy a new one i will spend a few bucks to get something light-ish.
I wouldn't drop the car till you see how the tracks are you plan to run on. Even if you been there a few years ago conditions can change, one of the tracks i run on has a large pothole(for a racetrack) on the runout for one of the faster corners that I have hit before. I was glad i wasn't on the bumpstops when that happened.
I would only consider an alignment if i had a person i personally trusted to align the car. Random midas alignment could end up leaving you in a worse condition then you are, and could scratch a rim or something else which would just **** me off.
So far I have:
1. change oil to 15W - Is it GM's recommendation to swap back to 5W for street use because it's better on the engine or they think you should change the oil after every track day?
2. upgrade brake fluid to a higher boiling point version - Does this have any affect on warranty? How much should I expect to pay for this job?
3. get a track alignment done by a shop that will do a precise job
4. do not lower car - Please explain how I'll know how much to lower it later if I want to?
5. buy a good helmet and shoes (already fully suited from my Barber school excursions including HANs)
6. buy some collision tape and green painter's tape for paint protection - No offense Bill, but your protection job is a little, shall I say, wrinkley? Does it make sense to have a stage 3 aero kit with splitters and winglets and diffusers and spoilers only to slap on a roll of collision wrap that is all folded and wrinkled? Although tape will certainly take longer to install and remove, it seems like a better option if you want the car to take full advantage of it's resources - no?
Still waiting on more advice for:
1. wheels - I'd love to swap out the wheels to reduce weight and look better as I don't love the stock wheels. But, if the wheels are just going to get beat up, then I'll just stick with the stockers.
2. seat and safety - I want to be safe. Feeling safe makes you faster. I would really like to hear from a current C7Z owner that swaps from stock to an aftermarket race seat before a track day. I know the harness bar and belts are easy to install, but I don't want to destroy the stock seats for a proper harness install
So far I have:
1. change oil to 15W - Is it GM's recommendation to swap back to 5W for street use because it's better on the engine or they think you should change the oil after every track day?
2. upgrade brake fluid to a higher boiling point version - Does this have any affect on warranty? How much should I expect to pay for this job?
3. get a track alignment done by a shop that will do a precise job
4. do not lower car - Please explain how I'll know how much to lower it later if I want to?
5. buy a good helmet and shoes (already fully suited from my Barber school excursions including HANs)
6. buy some collision tape and green painter's tape for paint protection - No offense Bill, but your protection job is a little, shall I say, wrinkley? Does it make sense to have a stage 3 aero kit with splitters and winglets and diffusers and spoilers only to slap on a roll of collision wrap that is all folded and wrinkled? Although tape will certainly take longer to install and remove, it seems like a better option if you want the car to take full advantage of it's resources - no?
Still waiting on more advice for:
1. wheels - I'd love to swap out the wheels to reduce weight and look better as I don't love the stock wheels. But, if the wheels are just going to get beat up, then I'll just stick with the stockers.
2. seat and safety - I want to be safe. Feeling safe makes you faster. I would really like to hear from a current C7Z owner that swaps from stock to an aftermarket race seat before a track day. I know the harness bar and belts are easy to install, but I don't want to destroy the stock seats for a proper harness install
I am an instructor for our local clubs around here and because I also race in Time Attack events I usually get the faster cars like ZR1's, F430's, GTR's etc my tips...
Car: don't lower it, get the CCW's (we all get them sooner or later lol) and make sure you are strapped in nice and tight, If that means getting a better harness/seat yes so be it. And basically what everyone els said here.
You: listen to your instructor and watch your speedo. Cars like that accelerate faster than the average driver think and if you don't keep an eye on your speed you maybe going faster than you think👍 be safe and have fun
Cheers
Bill,
I never looked closely at your avartar, I always glimpsed over it and just thought you had a neat custom paint job. I was never more disappointed than when I just read it was painters tape...
As far as track prep I'd agree Bill pretty much covered it. My first track day with the car I had the factory alignment and really did a number on the outsides of my front tires.... Also ran with stock seat belts which I wasn't happy with. Since then I had all fluids changed and used Torque brake fluid,Mobil 1 15-50 and diluted the antifreeze. Installed harness bar with 6 point belts and track alignment. The alignment really helps with front tire life and the harness keeps me in place. Oh and had the car wrapped in Xpel when it was a week old. Hope too see you at the track soon!! Enjoy
Spend money on hiring a good driving coach. That will be your biggest return on investment. Of course buying a lot of useless part is always a great deal of fun.
Bill speaks the truth. And yes, you spent a lot of money on a car with a bunch of aero parts on it. While those aero parts may be functional, they also will get dinged and chipped up pretty bad with their use. Such is the conundrum of track life, you want to spend money on nice things to go fast, and then you realize you're going to tear them up on the track. That's why I switched to just tracking a cheap C4 instead of my C6.
As far as the brake fluid and your warranty goes, using a better DOT4 brake fluid will not void your warranty. Your bigger issue for your warranty is going to be your use of the car on the track. Most warranties specifically do not cover damage from use in racing, and a car like that has definitely got the data recording capabilities to tell if you were on a track as opposed to driving around town.
I agree with the overall consensus of "don't spend money on anything but consumables, safety, and track time". Go to your track day with a VERY humble attitude. Going in with the statement of "I've done this and this and that and I'm no novice" and having a car as fast as you do will likely mean no instructor will want to ride with you because if you get full of yourself and screw up, they could be seriously injured or worse too.
It's not a bad idea to change your oil out after a track day. My guess is the GM recommendation to change back to normal oil after a track day has to do with the fact that the new Z06 runs so hot when pushed, and so it likely pushes the oil to its limit and may or may not seriously degrade it to the point of failure after a track weekend.
While I'm far from an expert, I'd say fluids, alignment & MAYBE better seat/restraints, but I'd say hold off on any wheel purchase until you learn the car as is.. The car will be more car then your driving skill for a while I'm sure...as for a nyone for that matter, so please don't take that as a personal dig!
Once you become experienced in the car and reach the limits of the tires safely, THEN it's time to get wheels/tires for the track. Unless you're running competitive, timed events, there's no real reason to get lighter wheels just to save some unsprung weight in my opinion.. But remember, dedicated track wheels/tires brings up another issue in that they have to be transported to the track & swapped at the track. Also, your alignment would have to be MUCH more aggressive than a street tire setting or they'll get destroyed fairly quickly.
instead of spending money on mods, spend it on seat time.
don't be in a hurry to advance through the run groups.
Instead of spending time doing mods, spend time watching videos of the track you will run. Have a track map, and if possible a turn-by-turn written narrative to compare to the video.
pick one good track and keep going to it and only it for the first year. Make it your goal to be able to call out every corner number, flag station and apex. Unless you have been doing this for years this will be harder than you think.
I can practically GUARANTEE you will be passed by a Miata on your first track day. Go see him after the session. If he thanks you for a good pass signal, then you are "getting there" .
Buy yourself a gopro and video your driving on the track. watch what the cars passing you do in the next turn and use that to help you find the best line. (don't follow the car on the track, though). After brake fluid and the GM required oil changes, that would be a good first investment.
First you learn what to do, then you learn how to do it, and finally you will be pretty good when you know WHY you do it. In reading your list, you aren't really sure why (take for example alignments) you might want to change your alignment. Until you can describe how the car responds to given settings, "father" (factory settings) knows best. Another example, squealing street tires tell you a lot about whether you are doing things right. Your instructor will be gaging your ability on how he is tossed around the car and the noise the tires make.
So like the others said, avoid the temptation to buy a bunch of stuff that might hide the skills you lack and what you need to learn to keep yourself and others around you safe on the track. With the beast you have, you can pretty much climb anybody's donkey, but this ability may be a safety challenge. Keep the nannies on, they will also tell you about your skill.
04-06-2015, 11:19 AM
Going to the track first time ????
