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ATE used to provide blue and gold TYP 200 brake fluid until the government put a stop to the blue color. It was so handy to alternate between the two colors so that you could see the fresh fluid coming through when bleeding the system.
Do any of you add color dye to brake fluid to accomplish the same tactic? If so, what dye and how much?
I personally would never intentionally add a foreign substance to brake fluid. It would not have the same resistance to heat or proper hydraulic pressure capacity that brake fluid has.
Practical sense tells me it's a no go but others may know differently.
You can get dye for detecting leaks in engine oil/brake fluid/power steering system...etc. at any parts house. Some green, some yellow glow types. Not sure what color you would end up with mixing the blue but the glow might get you bye with the excuse that it is there to detect a leak.
Oh, and I used to flush the different colors the same as you suggest. Using the flushing regime that is suggested by the manual, I got as much old fluid in the RR as all other three combined. (C5Z)
Last edited by SouthernSon; 04-09-2015 at 09:40 AM.
I still have an old bottle of ATE Super Blue on the shelf (opened). Before they stopped selling it I counted the number of brake pedal pumps required at each wheel to see the color change.
I still have an old bottle of ATE Super Blue on the shelf (opened). Before they stopped selling it I counted the number of brake pedal pumps required at each wheel to see the color change.
So ATE Super Blue had to have used some sort of color dye with no adverse effect. I appreciate all of the replies so far, but I am still looking for someone that has replicated the blue color to facilitate easy complete bleeding of the brake fluid.
I use a power bleeder, so the number of pumps doesn't help. It won't be the end of the world if I just have to use extra fluid to be on the safe side, but I have got to believe that someone has done some colorization of brake fluid?
So ATE Super Blue had to have used some sort of color dye with no adverse effect. I appreciate all of the replies so far, but I am still looking for someone that has replicated the blue color to facilitate easy complete bleeding of the brake fluid.
I use a power bleeder, so the number of pumps doesn't help. It won't be the end of the world if I just have to use extra fluid to be on the safe side, but I have got to believe that someone has done some colorization of brake fluid?
Why not give it a try and be the first to report back?
I use a power bleeder, so the number of pumps doesn't help. It won't be the end of the world if I just have to use extra fluid to be on the safe side, but I have got to believe that someone has done some colorization of brake fluid?
Same here, on my last can of blue, I marked the levels on my bleed bottle to use most of the can, roughly:
This is possible. A while back, I did some experiments using FD&C food grade dye powders in the lab. I was able to make red, blue, orange out of ordinary pale yellow Valvoline Dot 4. I don't have my notes handy but did notice that it took very little of the powders to impart the color and if too much was used the solids did not all dissolve. IIRC the amounts were on the order of 0.001% w/w. I'll look for my notes this weekend. The blue used in ATE blue appears to be methylene blue for those that have access. I would not recommend using the liquid solutions purchased in the grocery as those are aqueous mixes and seems like a bad idea to intentionally add even a little bit of water.
Did not find my previous notes so replicated the experiment in my spare time and produced the samples as shown in the photo. Used ~ 0.0015% w/v dye powder, (1.5 mg in 10 ml of ATE 200 type) and found that for the blue and orange not all of the powder dissolved so they were overloaded. In the attached photo L to R: ATE only, yellow #5, yellow #6, Blue #2 (all FD&C). Also note that the dissolution time in new 200 type was much longer, ~ 8 hours with stirring, than my previous test using Valvoline DOT 4, ~ 1 hour. This is probably due to lower water content as even a bit of water enhances the solubility of the dye. Bottom line - it is possible but I'm not willing to do this on my vehicle without more lab testing first.
I would also like to know. Sure would make it nice to put a bit of color in slug of fluid to see when it changes. SRF fluid does not get nasty like others & would be nice to see a contrast.
There have to be some Chemical Engineers on the forum somewhere that could give a good answer.
There have to be some Chemical Engineers on the forum somewhere that could give a good answer.
what do you specifically want know? From what is presented here, the idea is demonstrated. Based upon my observations, the correct amount is probably 1/2 to 1/3 of the amount tried. That would be ~ 50 mg/L. The dye materials would be compatible with brake lines, calipers and rubber seals.
Anyone want to send a quart or more for full scale testing? Or if you are willing to give it a go no your car, PM me for a better discussion.
One thing to consider in testing dyes would be their ability to handle heat. If you look at the advertised wet and dry boiling points of the various brands of DOT4 fluids, it would be interesting to see what would happen to the dyes when they are subject to those temperatures. And could the dyes effectively lower the boiling points of the fluids?
I believe a combination of pedal count and make lines on the catch jar are good enough for me. Besides, I've been called an over achiever, so I'll add two pedal pumps to each.
One thing to consider in testing dyes would be their ability to handle heat. If you look at the advertised wet and dry boiling points of the various brands of DOT4 fluids, it would be interesting to see what would happen to the dyes when they are subject to those temperatures. And could the dyes effectively lower the boiling points of the fluids?
most surely the dyes will break down if you get them hot enough. My ATE blue would come out black after use so how would one know? I don't see that as an issue though. Technically yes, adding anything would lower the boiling point but I doubt anyone would see a measurable difference when adding ~ 50ppm or less needed to achieve the color. Otherwise I believe we/someone would have noticed previously that ATE blue had a lower BP than ATE 200 gold type.
What I think is a better question to ask is: "how fast does brake fluid absorb atmospheric moisture?". EPDM seals are nice but not impermeable. It is an experiment I've been itching to try but have been crazy busy at work. If someone was willing to invest by sending some samples to me it would be good motivation and I could likely come up with some answers in a month or so. (don't want to promise a deadline though). Maybe someone has a little bit of high end fluid left over they'd be willing to send?
04-08-2015, 11:18 PM
Can you add color dye to brake fluid?
