C5 Hardtop

Good question. The answer may vary from club to club or company to company.

Generally they will ask you what group you should be in at signup time. At that point is when you begin to start your dialog. Also ask what their "tech" requirements are. If they don't spend any time on tech, walk. Cars need to be inspected and signed off before going on track. This is the drivers responsibility, but good groups will ask if your car has been teched and may have a form for you to follow, get signed off and bring to track day.

For first time or first season, spend more money and go with well established companies. Hooked On Driving is a good one to go with. There are many good clubs with awesome (leaning towards strict) policy. Its hard to say which ones (not that I know) without knowing where you are planning to participate.

In general, the more track and people management with in-car coaching the better the experience people have. Additionally, you will know if this is something you want to continue doing. Joining a bad club/company right off will/can deter someone who would flourish and have fun at a better offering/company/club.

But that experience comes with a price tag. The price of admission. It is so worth paying an extra $50-$100 or more in the beginning to find a good company/group/offering. After a few seasons finding the least cost track days may be an advantage for you (or may not).

Iconic

Last year I did HPDE at 4 tracks with 5 different organizers and in registering they all generally will reccomend beginer if you've done less than 6 events. They all seem to go by the honor system. I've also seen fast guys get moved from beginer to intermiediate by the event organizer.

Another thing I've seen is that when the advanced and intermiediate groups sell out first and you are an experienced racer with a fully race preped car, you sign up in the beginer group if that's all there is left. I saw this at Daytona last year. That's me in my avatar with Penskes former NASCAR cup car.

rocsvette

Most groups will only allow instructors to take riders and do not permit solo for beginners. I created the HPDE program at the NCM (and they fought me tooth and nail but look where it took them) and my rule based on lots of experience was beginner 0-2 events, novice 3-5, intermediate 5-10 and advanced 10+. They were guidelines not written in stone. Factors affecting that were car being driven, grasp of concepts, ability to handle problem situations, knowing flag stations, consistency. For example we had drivers who started as beginners, progressed in skills rapidly but sometimes drove Cobalt Turbo SS, they generally drove in Novice when the majority of cars were corvettes, particularly Z06s. Group instructions to drivers, if a Cobalt appears behind you, let it pass, God didn't put it there, skill did.

Early in the program we were heavy with beginners which is why we had the 5 group setup. In later years the intermediate and advanced groups filled first as we had regulars who just kept improving. Occasionally in an effort to get in, an experienced driver would register for a low group. I would review each entry form and then call any participant where there might be a question. More than once I refunded a registration and told that person they could not drive in the low group, not fair to the beginner or the experienced driver who gets frustrated with slow pace and lack of passing.

We did move people up and down at the event based on what the instructors observed, some people had lots of events but were too slow or erratic for their group others were too. Fast for their lower group.

One big problem for early solo and taking riders; you may understand the line and be able to drive the track fairly well for a beginner, but you have no idea how to handle problem situations and that's where an instructor is essential. We often sense a problem before the novice driver will and can give instructions to prevent or minimize the issue. At Sebring coming to the brake zone at 7 I calmly told my student he was not going to make the turn and would be in the grass and explained what he should do to handle it. It played out exactly as I said and he handled my instruction well. But he had no idea when entering the brake zone what was going to happen. That's why newbies shouldn't solo, not enough skill or knowledge about what to do when things go wrong.

moespeeds

To learn, you gotta make mistakes. To make mistakes, you need to push. To push, you gotta run in a group where you are challenged. I came from instructing motorcycles, where there is far less "coddling" compared to the car guys. I understand, car guys have far more chips in the game and crashing is super expensive. I now instruct in cars, and if a guy can get safely around the track and can properly behave in traffic, I bump him up. The speed will come, but if you are consistent and safe you are ready to go. I also find that in the C6/C7 generations, many other clubs/instructors have created monsters who rely on traction control/stability management to keep it on track. Turn that crap off, it's a crutch, and your driving will suffer in the long run.

AngryJ

I've always run autocross with the driving assits completely off. Going into the HPDE, I started in "competitive mode" which allows limited amounts of wheelspin and yaw. About halfway through my 2nd session, the "service traction system" light came on. After reading up on potential causes and risks, I ran the rest of the day with all assists turned off. Unlike autocross, if I'm activating assists on a roadcourse then I'm doing something wrong and need to correct it. The only time TCS or ASM would have kicked in for me is when I went deep into Turn 10 and hit a stream of water rolling across the track on exit. Happens right around the 6:40 mark in this video. There was water on the track at turns 7, 10, and 15 which really rewarded consistency to avoid them. Turn 10 proved to be a little tricky throughout the day.

JeremyGSU

This is one reason I like Chin so much. In order to get signed off to the next group the Instructor can only recommend they be signed off but a Chief Instructor has to ride with them to approve the process. They also require a set amount of days to be in the group before they allow a switch. Sometimes this is bypassed but it's a standard for the most part.

The speeds of cars are getting nuts and the run groups have gotten much, MUCH faster than say just 5 years ago. I think it's a good idea to have strict sign-off policies.

Ludeaem

Seems like most events have their rules but generally follow the same regulations. If you do not feel safe with their guidelines...don't attend. I would say most people that come out to these events have some sort of car control and aren't your grandma in her beige Camry.

Read the rules, pay attention, be safe. End

blkbrd69

I have seen the sign off criteria of different organizations is vastly different, and has some reasons behind it.

For instance NCM run groups seem to be very cordial, with drivers even in the advanced black group giving each other a plenty of room in the corners. Many corvette owners don't want to loose paint. That did seem like a quick signoff especially to go solo with a passenger but previous experience does count.

NASA is a bit more aggressive run group 3 intermediate is about equal to the aggressiveness of NCM advanced. Run group 4 is also the TT warm-up in the mornings and has a few race cars mixed in for a bit of fun.

IMHO Chin has the most aggressive run groups I have seen. In the advanced groups you will have to be very careful as there will be lots very fast drivers in full out race cars diving inside you in corners with some incredible closure rates and aggressive passing. Paint is just an abradable coating to some. As such, the sign offs justifiably require the most coaching signoff.

Boxcar

Well thanks to everyone

I too track my GS and my C4 previously. I'm currently in HPDE GP 2 with NASA. I've been tracking now for five years, done 20+ two day events on 5 different tracks. There is a lot of good advice here. This weekend I'll be at Watkins Glen with NASA and I'm going for HPDE GP3 before the weekend is done.

I learned a lot over the past four years, and there is so much truth too:
1. You as a driver have to have track knowledge, if a corner surprises you, stay with an instructor until you have mastered it.
2. You have to be aware of your surrounding...all around your car.
3. Giving point-by(s) should be natural, not nerve wracking. No matter the run group you are going to be passed.
4. You have to know your car, its maintenance, its capabilities, and most important its braking limits.
5. My personal feeling, I'd rather be at the high end "faster" in GP2 then be the terrified "slower" GP3.

It has already been said, speed and comfort will come with time and experience....nobody is out there to "rub" paint or wreck their ride.

Happy Tracking Season to all and to All Stay SAFE.

Erie....my friend, mentor and instructor, I hope to see you at the Glen.

WNeal

As owner of 10/10ths, I agree to all points above. We allow passengers on a case by case basis and sometimes do allow Novice drivers to take a passenger only after they have been signed off. We occasionally have a driver who excels very quickly however I have changed my on line policy for this to reflect this fact.
SAFETY is always our first priority and we give this a lot of attention.

I appreciate the input from everyone and I continuously evaluate our program and policies. This is one of them.

moespeeds

We also allow passengers, though we no longer accept "Novice" drivers. Many clubs frown on this policy, but in the 3 years I've been running the club we have never had a problem. We disallow passengers for the first 2 sessions, just to make sure there are no yahoos in the mix, but after that anyone is allowed as long as they sign the waiver.

05dsom

on his first day....crazy and dangerous

AngryJ

It was well received and understood that safety was the number one priority. I appreciate you taking our personal circumstance into consideration, and I apologize if that caused any discomfort among the instructors or other drivers. I will definitely be coming back to 10/10ths because of the people involved. 10/10ths was highly recommended to me by everyone in the Louisville area, and my experience was top notch. The last thing I want is for 10/10ths to receive any criticism for making this exception for my wife to ride with me.

Thank you again for allowing me to participate in the very well run event and thank you for updating the FAQ to communicate the passenger allowance.

moespeeds

I fail to see how the allowance of passengers is related to safety, regardless of the student's skill level. The novice groups have a pretty low crash rate, and are usually minor. It's the Intermediates who are doing the most wrecking, and if anything ends up upside-down or on fire, it's usually in advanced.

RDnomorecobra

People show off. Plus the liability aspect. Hey, I'd love to be able to give rides. But I understand the policy.

Hat_Trick_Hokie

Bingo

moespeeds

But somehow the guys in the more advanced groups do not? Again, back to the coddling of novices. 3 years and we've never had an incident we could call "passenger related".

RDnomorecobra

I'm not saying that. I have not run with a group that allowed passengers with anyone but an instructor.

Joshboody

I don't think my group has any stipulations on passengers. I was asked by an instructor to take a passenger my 3rd day... I declined. You're also basically solo your 2nd day (I was solo my first time on a track) and have to hunt for an instructor.
I was a little shocked at how loose everything was, and seems that's not the norm.

harrydirty

However, you showed great judgement and courage by declining; basically, you do not do anything on track you are not comfortable with, so kudos that you did not succumb to pressure.