rikhek

I'm hoping to get forum members to generate a list of insurance companies which DO NOT exclude coverage of HPDE events.

I'm aware of the companies offering HPDE specific coverage on an event or season basis.

However, some companies still offer policies which do not exclude coverage during an HPDE provided it's not a competitive or timed event. These are the companies I'd like to identify.

TIA

Rick

baddogz28

+1

Rookieracer

Generally, the HPDE events are insured on an as needed basis for each event.

FASTFATBOY

Alfa

SouthernSon

There used to be quite a few but many have now added to the exclusion of 'competition' events and now state 'nothing is covered if occurance is on a track used for competition even if no competition is in progress at time of incident' or something to that effect.

I think your thread is a great idea but if any companies get listed you may want to check their latest caveats. Most, if not all, have changed their coverage in the last few years.

For a track specific event coverage, you may want to call Adam at the NCM.

rocsvette

For track coverage only try Locton Affinity.

jlutherva

If you have been with USAA for a long time, you may be covered. New policies with USAA have the exclusion. I was told this by a USAA representative, however, this was about three years ago.

Read the exclusions part of your USAA policy.

Jim

cebars

What kind of insurance are your looking for:

1) Liability coverage - pays the cost of:
- lawyers required to defend you if your are sued as a result of a track event,
- damages to the property of others (e.g the track, other track cars, etc.),
- cost of causing death or injury of others (e.g. passenger, track worker or other drivers) due to your participation in the event.
- any other liability issue.

OR

2) Collision coverage - repair of your car if your damage it on the track.

I believe that Lockton Affintity and NCM only offer collision coverage to repair or replace your own car but not any other party. They do not offer liability coverage.

Liability coverage is more important to me than collision coverage.

SCCA and NASA had and may still have a liability policy that covers participants in their events. Anyone relying on coverage provided by organizations such as SCCA or NASA or your Corvette Club should check how much coverage participants are covered for....it may be insufficient if someone is injured badly for life and you have to pay for their medical care and the day to day living expenses of the injured

Liability insurance was/is available through from K&K, but their minimum premium was $5,000 so you have to do many events to justify the cost.

I suggest that you ask your insurance agent if you can buy an umbrella personal liability insurance policy that covers you for liability on the track. If you already have insurance other than auto insurance with an insurer and you are a significant policyholder (i.e. the amount of premium income from you is meaningful to the insurer), your present house or business insurer, your non-auto insurer may provide you with a liability policy that covers you on the track.

My auto policy is void if I am on a track.

IMHO, the waivers that are signed by participants are worthless as there will be litigation (legal costs - which you will have to pay for out of your own pocket if you do not have a liability insurance policy that covers you on the track for that event. These legal costs could require spending all of the wealth that you have in an attempt to protect yourself from life long liability for the incident with no guarantee what the courts will decide. There will likely be litigation if the damage/injury is significant or death occurs.

Good luck in finding a few insurers who will provide you what you are looking for.

Han Solo

It's hard enough these days to find an insurance company that will pay legitimate claims. Seems all they want to do is take money, not pay any out.

apex26

The consensus seems to be that most personal auto policies now specifically exclude track events (mine does). Litigating against an insurer to seek coverage would be expensive and probably futile. Also, you would want to read carefully any umbrella policy to be positively sure to be covered. The liability exposure at these events is limitless--most people would be terrified to learn the true potential dollar amounts--enough to bankrupt most any of us. I'll be watching this thread with interest, but doubt there is a mass-merchandised solution yet. As for the cars, that's the easy part, and affordable. I've come to believe that the best liability insurance is to avoid contact with any other car at all costs, but that's not very comforting given the huge risks.

craig-o

After careful review of the language in my policy (with a major US carrier, but not one with big direct-to-consumer advertizing) by both myself and my independent agent, it is our mutual conclusion that HPDE is not specifically excluded. That said, the exclusions include racing, preparing to race, practicing to race, participating in any timed event, preparing or practicing for any timed event; so HPDE with a group that does not offer timing as an option appears to be a loophole.

In addition, my agent offered the opinion that, in the event of a claim resulting from participating in an HPDE event, the carrier would resist paying the claim, but felt that they would eventually need to pay. My agent further suggested that I would get only 1 claim of this nature before the carrier would refuse to renew my policy. As such, the advice was to switch insurance companies as soon as that claim settled so as not to be burdened with an insurance history of being "dropped."

When I considered changing insurance companies recently, the exclusions for the new policy included not just racing or timed events, but driving on any non-public road, track or course specifically designed for racing. Needless to say, although it could have saved me a couple hundred dollars/year, I kept my current insurance.

I'd be happy to share my insurance carrier with anyone in a PM, but would not care to post in a public forum that might result in them seeing and closing that loophole.

apex26

Oh, you can be sure every company is responding to this as we speak. VP's, underwriters, etc, change companies all the time. Having been a PC agent years ago, I wouldn't trust such an opinion unless the agent called an underwriter and asked, as a general question, if such an event is covered, and documented the conversation. They are all painfully aware of the exposure, it's just that such exclusions probably have to be approved by state insurance departments--and some like NY are notoriously slow and ****. Not saying your agent isn't right, just saying you want to confirm it with an underwriter. Even then, case law in your state may have over-ridden policy language (but they should know that). We really need a specific policy for liability, or an umbrella affirmatively granting such coverage, including unlimited legal fees, much as I hate to say it.

Dirk Miller

Good subject covered here. My wife is especially concerned with liability and rightfully so. We have three lawyers in our immediate family who confirm that years of court-entangled litigation would result from an injury during a HPDE. I agree with my wife that we would not want to loose our house. So without buying liability insurance for each event, does anyone know how we could best protect our assets? Could a family set up a corporation in such a way that might better protect one’s house?
Ok before someone says it, I’ll chime in with: “ c.y.a. by investing more time at a race school and/or add a big-brake system for our heavy cars”. But seriously what is our best option?

rfn026

This is all covered in my recent Vintage Motorsport article. Here's the link.

Richard Newton

apex26

Your article informs about property damage to our own cars, but is silent on the point of our discussion here--liability exposure. My family all use Katz&co for HPDE, and they are fantastic to deal with, but I do not believe they offer liability insurance--I will email Missy to be sure. Also, insurance companies do NOT insure you with the notion that the insurance will never be used, nor is it "highly profitable". They actually calculate the number of claims they expect--usually paying out over a dollar for every premium dollar taken in, relying on the law of large numbers to squeeze in a profit. Usually, they only make a profit on the combined premium dollars invested until the money gets paid out in claims. Objectively speaking, those thin and highly competitive margins are why companies are so **** about a high risk they never anticipated. We are still left with the original question--who provides affordable liability insurance for track events?

FASTFATBOY

As an insurance adjuster, I can pretty safely say that:

If you read your policy( and you ALL should, including your homeowners) under EXCLUSIONS, if it does not specifically exclude the activity....then it's covered. You may have to raise a little hell, but they have no option but to cover it.

Also, many exclusions like this are a state by state deal in the mandates. I did a lot of research on this a few years ago...but have forgotten most of it.

Last I checked, Alfa was one of the few left that cover DE events.

This was a good article I read while doing research.

http://wurthmotorsports.com/car-insu...nd-track-days/

Other ones I found

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/19/au...SURE.html?_r=0

Also be very careful about calling to find out as you may "red flag" yourself, easier to read your policy exclusions.

AUTO_X_AL

E. to any vehicle and its contents involved in racing or speed contest activities.

This is the only verbiage in exclusions that I could find. Is this safe to assume that it only applies to timed events and HPDE's wouldn't be considered a "speed contest"?

FASTFATBOY

Racing=Timed event

Speed contest=Drag racing

In my readings of policy, your's may be different.

Han Solo

A lot of people don't realize it but your home owners policy has personal liability coverage for on or off your property.

That said my policy has an exclusion for "any speed event". I have a feeling most carriers will switch to this language rather than the "timed event" wording.

aaronc7

USAA excludes anything involved in a "Driving contest or challenge":

A competition against other people, vehicles, or time, or an activity that challenges the speed or handling characteristics of a vehicle, or improves or demonstrates driving skills, provided the activity occurs on a track or course that is closed from nonparticipants.