k24556

Well, I'd like to take some mild exception to your comments about DE's and the qualty of instruction, but back to the center of the whole thread, the driver in the vid had the learning mode switch in the OFF position and the "FEED ME ADRENALIN and BAD ATTITUDE" valve wide open. THe unfortunate thing is that the right seat should have reeled in the situation, but instead fed it. So, what a great learning esperience for those of us that arm-chair criticize.

Now regarding volunteer instructors. I've done about 70DE days in past 5 years and I have raised my skill level to the point that the instructors I have had are confident enough in my skills that I seldom need a right seat. I do ask one of my former instructors on occasion to ride with me and critique my improvements. Also, I ask for a right seat a a track I am not familiar with because I want to keep myself and others safe from my mistakes.

The volunteer instructors I have had were mostly retired guys, volunteers and very dedicated to teaching proper and safe techniques, so with the exception of ONE time when I was very green and got an instructor that did not know that track, I must say they helped me greatly and have all become friends, and I cherish their friendship.

I have also come to know a couple guys, big names in their racing days that are professional instructors. They struggle to get enough high paying gigs so sustain a full-time business. I'm retired, and while it would be rewarding to have a real pro help me, the money (for me at least) might be better spent on more seat time.

The organizations I go to for DE days; some have a great cadre of volunteer instrutors, well vetted for the task. There are some organizations that view DE differently and cater to more eperienced drivers. That's OK a good student will select the venue that suits his or her goals.

Now regarding nannies on a car, BRING IT ON!!!! There are some absolutely terrible drivers on the road today that would be now dead without them (mmmmm, maybe the gene pool does need cleansing). Same for the track. As an example, just watch the vid. If I was on the track with that clown, I would be praying he had the switch in the max nanny setting when he came near me.


To, those instructors, Doc Hill, Jim Luther, Col Dave, Richard, et.al, Thanks for helping me along in my driving journey.

Brian

Olitho

Interesting. I went back to look at this video. After three weeks, about 200,000 views and 500+ comments the video is now private.

MUKAK

i wonder why lol

isnt the "instructor" phillip hwang guy is the one that posted the video? complete moron ( both of them )

aaronc7

When this went big, I had a feeling they might take it down. So I saved a copy:

Corvee

You could not be more incorrect in your assessment that "There are very, very few quality instructors available for free". Most of the instructors I am privileged to regularly work with are very skilled as drivers and coaches. I doubt you have personally instructed. If you had you would have experienced the joy seeing "the lights come on" for a novice. It may seem odd to you, but it is a reward to give back to something many of us love and to help bring others into the sport, so that we may all benefit by having more events - with better drivers. To have your track fees "waived" for the weekend is in many cases worth several hundred dollars and for many the difference in participating or not.

As far as your comment "Anyone that races and then also has time and/or is willing to instruct is merely a back of the pack racer" - Many instructors race and instruct on weekend. With adequate preparation you can devote ~ 1 hour a day and run your events/work on your car(assuming nothing major breaks). As a competitor, what is wrong with having your entry fees subsidised? This helps offset the cost of participating, which adds up (expendables, gas to & from the track, lodging, meals, etc.) I personally know instructors that compete in World Challenge, Tudor, etc. I worked with an instructor at a Chin Motorsports event at Road Atlanta last year who won the GT pro-am at Petite the following fall.

In response to "Several years back when I used to race some of my competitors as well as "racers" in other classes did double duty as instructors. While they may have impressed newbies with their driving skills I used to hand them there *** in the races" -You are obviously very impressed with yourself. I wonder if your competitors agree.

Regarding the "instructor" in the video - he obviously had neither training or experience and the organizer of the event did a very poor job of screening.

trackboss

You are wrong. The regular working person whom is successful in racing spends hundreds of hours in preparation for a single race. That person spends all the money, does the logistics, tows, races, and maintains their race car. There really is no time to devote to instruction. I can assure you that. Yes there are some privileged ones to which none of that applies.
I have instructed a handful of times on non-race days. I wouldn't do it again. I prefer to be completely in control and not put my life in the hands of someone else. All that being said, there unique times when someone qualified may be made available, but as I originally said they are very few.
Anyways, whatever works for you corvee.

pkincy

Different strokes for different folks. When I was running a full race series (10 races in a Season throughout Ca) I was indeed incredibly busy keeping up with the maintenance on the car between races, but would occasionally find time (generally on a non race weekend and generally as a favor to a friend) to give back a little to the sport by taking some right seat time with the friend aspiring to get better or work towards a competition license.

Just seems a bit like paying it forward.

jd86L98

Lol! Great thinking ahead

tytek

Yeah, thanks for saving that video. I am not sure how I missed seeing this thing earlier...

This guy is a piece of work. Surprised he didn't get confronted by others who were driving in his group, after a session like that.

And, like others have said, the nannies have saved his life, the life of his insane passenger(instructor?), and others on the track.

On a side note, not having an HD camera in the Z06 is ridiculous. I have expressed my thoughts on this topic before. Apparently, there are no retrofit cameras to remedy this yet.

Socko

HAHA I'm glad someone saved that as the links were dead and i never got to see it.

Who allows novices to pass in corners? That's pretty confusing. I am sure i could find video of me that close to and swearing at a gt2 or gt3. I have been to plenty of track days where people sunday drive. Mind you I haven't ever passed someone in a corner.

I agree, i have never been with instructors that really impressed me. I have gone with some of them in their cars. And some have driven my car. Driving in their cars really helped, but unless you own a vette, pushing close to the edge in a car that you didn't prep and don't know or trust the state of isn't something that's "easy".

My take is most instructors can help a real novice, but once you are able to see the line and the track ok, maybe 1-3 track days, a free instructor doesn't serve much purpose.

Most of them are there to get their free track time. Fact of the matter is, if you care about free track time, you are slow. I spend more in tires and brakes then i do for the track time itself. That doesn't include the fuel, over all wear and tear, fluids, track insurance. I think the track time is about 1/3-1/4 the cost of the day assuming i don't break anything besides a rotor. I don't even consider actual admitance cost anymore when i figure out how much I am going to run in a season. Much more concerned with repair and wear and tear costs!

aaronc7

tttttt

SouthernSon

I suppose if you race only a handful of tracks, never drive more than a couple of different cars and really don't care for the socializing with friends it may not be worth the trips to instruct at HPDE's but I have found HPDE's a great opportunity to check out new or different tracks in preparation for competition. Also, it is a great opportunity to test the performance of a competition car while setting it up for a race. Instructing during down time is very rewarding while socializing with old friends and meeting new ones. There are many retired professionals to be found at local HPDE's that are only too happy to pass on their experiences and give back to the sport that they have enjoyed through their lifetime. Perhaps the venues are different on the west coast but I wouldn't think so.

pkincy

Not any different on the Left Coast, just a likely difference in focus. We all set our priorities. Kinda glad that is the case. I didn't instruct often in HPDEs but prior to getting my competition license and buying a real race car, I did a lot of instructing in my autox days as there was a lot of downtime during the day.

In W2W in a very competitive class there is much less. I wouldn't at all begrudge someone concentrating on what they were doing in that case.

SouthernSon

I wouldn't, either. But, I surely wouldn't say that it is rare to find good instruction at HPDE's by professionals, current and retired, as well as by amateurs. I know better. I, personally, enjoy the socializing at the track and have found it difficult during competition sprints or endurance races, even with teammates. Therefore, I and many other racers enjoy our HPDE time.

tytek

I am a living proof of that concept! Thanks for great feedback from both, yourself and others at NCM. It is a complex track that takes a lot of seat time to get right.

Having done various HPDE events with various groups at various tracks, I can attest to what Arte is saying. There are a lot of qualified instructors out there whose advice I had found to be invaluable in my quest for skill and speed. Some are former racers, who in fact charge big money for private track time coaching. I have had the pleasure to be on the receiving end of such lessons at HPDE events for free... doesn't get much better than that.

alienranch

froggy47

Taken private.



Never mind, thanks alienranch

Suns_PSD

That was entertaining!

Both car's we watched had pretty bad drivers but also the track was too crowded and had some pretty different skill and hp levels.

The guy in the passenger seat was trying to get the guy to take the proper line with those hand signals. He would point him out went entering the turn then back in to the apex. It didn't work! Clearly they allow passing aggressively with this group. I can't afford to total my Vette that is uninsured once on the race track so if I couldn't get away from that guy (highly likely due to so much traffic in the infield) I'd definitely have dropped way back.

And what an amazing automobile! Wow.

63Corvette

I am retired. I race. I instruct.
My home track is TWS and I enjoy and know the track well.
I have raced at CoTA twice in the SVRA National Championship Races.
Between 2013 and the 2015 races I instructed with a variety of groups. I learned much about the CoTA track, view, lines, braking and passing zones, and even maximum speeds for some long high speed turns like 16,17,18. Track entry fees are high ($450 to $750) and I (hopefully) learned much while instructing and did not have to pay those fees to drive the track while learning. Oh, and it is wonderful to observe whenever a student "gets it"

dvandentop

good lord @ 14:50 listen to that engine sing as he puts it into 1st gear somehow