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The second question is about rigidity of calipers. He mentioned that his brakes were machined aluminum and not forged like APracing and therefore more rigid. Could someone lend some unbiased information to this claim?
If his brakes where 2 piece, meaning the caliper was bolted together. then the casting manufacturing process has almost no impact on the strength. a 2 piece caliper's strength is determined by the size and location of the bolts holding it together.
If he was selling mono-block calipers, then yes a bullet caliper would be stronger and also cost $2000-$7000K each. most of the time if the caliper is engineered properly you can get away with a forged mono block caliper that is very stiff.
PFC's mono-block caliper for the C5 and C6 corvette.
PFC's Grand-am brake kit for the C6 body'ed cars. Grand-am outlawed monoblock calipers, fearing that the cost would be too high.
we want to avoid ABS as much as we can. if your ABS is kicking on all the time then we have a bias issue. this could be from the tires or the brakes. tell us more about what you have going on. things like tire compound, tire size, operating PSI, and what pads you have.
While the Internet code AZ does stand for Azerbijan (a country bordered by the Caspian Sea, Russia, Georgia, and Iran), the correct Internet code for the company in question is ZA or South Africa.
56, 400 people have looked at this, and still no graph to show actual pad properties against each other.
I thought it was clear: it's never going to happen. At least not unless you find an independent tester to purchase and run all the pads under the same conditions on the same dyno. As long as you stay in the family assume your supplier is giving honest, comparative data. Move to the other side of the fence and you'll start all over again with those compounds.
56, 400 people have looked at this, and still no graph to show actual pad properties against each other.
Originally Posted by Todd TCE
I thought it was clear: it's never going to happen. At least not unless you find an independent tester to purchase and run all the pads under the same conditions on the same dyno. As long as you stay in the family assume your supplier is giving honest, comparative data. Move to the other side of the fence and you'll start all over again with those compounds.
Apologies for jumping in without reading the exact context of the question, but there is some data out there, which is mostly relative (meaning, pad CoF can be somewhat interpretive by vendor, especially amongst competing brands).
Good link. And shows how so many various suppliers can produce charts that serve their own needs. None of that is a "Bad Thing" it's simply marketing their product and showing why and how they push their family of pads to the user. Nobody is going to say "our Brand A xx pads has the exact same properties as Brand B's xx pad" then it simply becomes a price war. It's like buying cars and tires; all the suppliers would like your long term business and keep it in family.
I think it would be foolish to really try to look at comparing the data and making a choice solely based upon what is shown. There's going to be some trial and error with any of them.
*And BTW as your go-to Wilwood guy... let me tell you Wilwood has never posted a chart like this:
That (I suspect there are more) is total BS. Anyone reading this by know knows that there are no true "Dual Purpose" pads. False advertising like this is what leads folks to making bad decisions and then blaming suppliers. This is done by whoever hotrod.com is.
I think some of the accusations you are making toward Wilwood in this thread are bordering on libel, and does not belong in the Corvette Forum. Johnny, if you have massive evidence of negligence and product liability involving Wilwood you should be retaining a lawyer and organizing some class legal action, not slinging **** on the CF.
Can you please explain how your personal bias against Wilwood is benefiting the CF membership?
Disclosure: I do not personally own any Wilwood products, or have any connection with Wilwood.
I think some of the accusations you are making toward Wilwood in this thread are bordering on libel, and does not belong in the Corvette Forum. Johnny, if you have massive evidence of negligence and product liability involving Wilwood you should be retaining a lawyer and organizing some class legal action, not slinging **** on the CF.
Can you please explain how your personal bias against Wilwood is benefiting the CF membership?
Disclosure: I do not personally own any Wilwood products, or have any connection with Wilwood.
Libel? how so? this is all personal opinion based upon my personal experiences.
My largest Beef with that brand is how they train their field reps. that training or lack their of, has almost killed one of my friends. you're benefit from my beef with them that is you should double check the information you have been provided. this is safety and i take it serious. i work in hard numbers and not in "this will be fine" logic. the biggest benefit that a CF member are going to have a better chance at taking their car home still shiny, they are driving home, and not in a box. I've been to plenty of races where drivers didn't go home. i'll be damned if one of my racers isn't going to make it back, because i was quiet.
I am sorry if i say things like "srap" or "******" this post has over 1000 comments and i really don't have time to make every example, but i do want to get my point across. again i'm doing this on my free time under no direction from any manufacture. this should be very clear as i praise Stoptech, AP and the higher dollar Brembo. all brands i'm not associated with. i even encourage people to talk to Jeff Ritter, and KNS brakes. people who i know are experienced yet competition in my day job.
there are a lot of People in the brake world that don't have a clue on the dynamics of brakes. i'm sure you can google "brake kit" and find hundreds of companies. MOST kits are worse than the oem's brakes. So there is one benefit, you won't throw cash down the toilet. most of the kits that I've throw out had wilwood components. is this willlwoods fault? half the time i would say no. most of the time the car builder was asking too much out of the components and we needed to make a kit for the car. the other half of the time i would say yes it s their fault. a quick story- many small potato brake manufactures use wilwood components. the calipers and rotors are cheap and abundant. in the case of Flying miata's brake kit. they made a simple and cheap kit using the dynalight and a 11' rotor. Willwood found out that it used a dyanlight and built their own copy of the kit. wilwood undercut fm and sold their willwood kit 10% under FM's cost. crushing fm's brake business. the problem with this is simple. FM tries really hard but they lack the engineering chops to build a brake proper kit. their 11" kit had many flaws including the pistons in the caliper where 7% smaller than stock, and the rotor wasn't centered over the wheel bearings. so it killed front torque, killing the balance, increasing stopping distances and you would cycle out front hubs. when wilwood copied the kit they copied it 100%. they didn't fix anything! a major brake manufacture relied on the braking engineering work of a company that builds turbos for mazdas. they just took the idea and released it, all the flaws still there. so guess who bought the kit.... me. this was a long time ago before i was ever in the industry. guess what happened to that kit. it was thrown in the trashed and replaced. they say "the cheap spend money twice". well... that was me.
So i guess the moral of the story is this. if your going to go cheap and not wanting to spend money twice, get someone that knows what they are talking about. if your a racer, find someone with a good track record and wins. get their take. Willwood can make a great items for the price. I've gotten a few of their calipers to perform decently. we have had a few cars do well on them. but you need to know what your doing, if you want the results from them. also double check the small potato BBK with a fine tooth comb. Do not worry about the thief but beware the honest man that knows not of what he is doing.- unknown
and sorry again for foul language. my intent is not to offend.
Obviously I don't want to see anyone get hurt folks. On any brand. Nor do I go making a point of searching out crash specifics by brand. I am happy to point out the success of Wilwood when they do well as any suppler would, despite the negative comments of a few.
In this case it was a bit tongue in cheek towards Johonny from his previous statements is all.
I'm not remotely going to comment on an incident I have zero knowledge of. Not looking to spin it off into deep thought and accusations. He's certainly entitled to his opinions and welcome to express them. Please excuse me if I dispell a bit of the incorrect info when it's shared however.
Libel? how so? this is all personal opinion based upon my personal experiences.
you're benefit from my beef with them that is you should double check the information you have been provided.
Everyone has an opinion. What separates opinion from facts is data. Verifiable, indisputable data. I've followed this thread for months and read every one of the 1000 odd posts. There has been a lot of valuable contribution from a lot of people, but your personal opinion based dislike for Wilwood and a few other products throws any idea of objectivity out the window and discredits everything you post. Your earlier post implies that a horrible crash that resulted in injury to the driver is the result of using Wilwood brake products. How was that crash caused by Wilwood brakes? Do you really expect us to blindly lap up what you post here as the gospel truth?
Obviously I don't want to see anyone get hurt folks. On any brand. Nor do I go making a point of searching out crash specifics by brand. I am happy to point out the success of Wilwood when they do well as any suppler would, despite the negative comments of a few.
In this case it was a bit tongue in cheek towards Johonny from his previous statements is all.
I'm not remotely going to comment on an incident I have zero knowledge of. Not looking to spin it off into deep thought and accusations. He's certainly entitled to his opinions and welcome to express them. Please excuse me if I dispell a bit of the incorrect info when it's shared however.
right the pictures above where a tongue and cheek reference to the Watkins Glen Trans am race. and the closer i look at the chassis the more i think it was a TA1 car. i see a sb2 engine. at first it thought it was a cope ta2 car. cope uses willwood, was the joke. i too am unaware of the cause. i do know the car was brand new, under 60 hours on it.
i do keep a file of all the brake failures and resulting crashes if you guys want to see that
right the pictures above where a tongue and cheek reference to the Watkins Glen Trans am race. and the closer i look at the chassis the more i think it was a TA1 car. i see a sb2 engine. at first it thought it was a cope ta2 car. cope uses willwood, was the joke. i too am unaware of the cause. i do know the car was brand new, under 60 hours on it.
i do keep a file of all the brake failures and resulting crashes if you guys want to see that
If it was a joke and I missed it, then I apologize.
Although Johnny has been pretty acid in his comments about Wilwood products I did see his picture of the crashed car and his comment as humor and not a real critique.
05-10-2016, 09:59 AM
fyi driver is beat up but should make a recovery. 
