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Perhaps that could be an answer, though I know the AP kit can be used with stock rears and aggressive Ferodo pads up front without issue.
Maybe the XP20/10 is too great a difference.
I just went with the AP kit on my Z07 using the Ferodo DSUNO pads on the front. They work great but I can feel there is too much bias toward the front. When I replace the Unos I will probably go with a pad that gets me closer to the overall stock brake bias.
I just went with the AP kit on my Z07 using the Ferodo DSUNO pads on the front. They work great but I can feel there is too much bias toward the front. When I replace the Unos I will probably go with a pad that gets me closer to the overall stock brake bias.
Bill
What are you running in the rear Bill? I've run DSUNO but always on both front and rear. I prefer the DS 1.11 front and rear.
Viewing the data in Cosworth Toolbox, I noticed the brakes are typically at 1-2% even when at 100% throttle.
Is this the ABS/AH intervening? Is it causing the brakes to be in use almost all the time?
Poor-sha, can you look at the data chart from your video?
I responded in the other thread but for everyone here I checked my PDR data and I am showing a constant 4-5% brake in the Cosworth toolbox even when in PTM Race mode. I suspect it's just a calibration issue on the sensor.
I just got done building a 383 stroker converted to a carb. with a big cam and an edelbrock dual plane air gap intake.The problem I'm having is low brake vacuum because of the big cam(I'm assuming).Without breaking the bank is there a cheap fix for this?
I just got done building a 383 stroker converted to a carb. with a big cam and an edelbrock dual plane air gap intake.The problem I'm having is low brake vacuum because of the big cam(I'm assuming).Without breaking the bank is there a cheap fix for this?
I recommend the same solution that Zora used for the C3's that used engine vacuum to open/close the headlights, open the windshield wiper door, and supply vacuum to the power brake booster - add a vacuum reserve tank between the intake manifold's take off port and your master cylinder vacuum booster.
New brake failure theory - Please poke holes in it.
The thermal expansion rates of the caliper are different from the bleed screw, and when they both get hot, the caliper expands more than the screw allowing fluid to escape around the bleed screw threads and out of the caliper hole at the same time introducing air possibly.
The caliper was designed to a performance level and budget with the stock parts as a whole system. On stock pads and rotors with DOT4 (ATE), the temps produced are comparable with the two metals, and it doesn't really become an issue. If anything you get some brake fade and come in early or dial back your braking zone.
If you go to a higher temp fluid and or pad, you can exceed those temps quickly and before the fluid and pads get hot enough to cause fade, it's getting pushed out and air is coming in.
This theory is the result of a brake failure similar to mine by another member, and another member's continual problem with leaking calipers on his Z07. So much that he needs to refill the master cylinder at the track. This also seems to only affect the outer bleed screw. In most cases of leaking calipers, the inside is clean, while the outside is stained.
I just got done building a 383 stroker converted to a carb. with a big cam and an edelbrock dual plane air gap intake.The problem I'm having is low brake vacuum because of the big cam(I'm assuming).Without breaking the bank is there a cheap fix for this?
Not sure if this will work in your application, but electric vacuum pumps for this issue are a plenty. If you use a vacuum accumulator tank to store extra vacuum the vacuum pump produces, I would think you'd have even more reserve capacity if really using the brakes a lot. Hope this helps.
I would like to know the best location for mounting a brake pressure sensor to feed data to my RT DL1 data logger. I have a 2013 427 vert. Any suggestions?
Last edited by adalgleish; 11-08-2016 at 09:20 AM.
Johnny C is the majority of my real name. I'm a "brake guy" by profession and by hobby. I have an obnoxious amount of brake tech swirling around my noodle. If I crammed that info into a Book, nobody would read it. It's some of the driest information anyone could imagine. If and only if you have an issue with your brakes would you pay attention. I find the best way to educate the public is by starting a discussion.
About me: I'm a former PFC factory Rep. I've worked with top racing teams like Joe gibbs racing, Ganassi, Rum bum, Irish mikes, so on, and so on. I've been in the motorsports world professionally starting in 2006. I've worked hand and had with teams and engineers to build braking systems and to fix issues with braking systems.
If you having an issue with your brakes, please ask. Or if you are looking to upgrade your brakes, please first ask. The majority of club racing related braking issues I come across, are from individuals who tried to upgrade their system without an understanding of how a system works.
Disclaimer: I am not a sponsor, so I will not be offering anything for sale. I am doing this solely for the education of the community, a way for me to give back.
Cliffnotes:
Johnny I have a nice 65 vette that I had a new master cylinder put on because there just wasn't enough room between having the brake pedal depressed and bottoming out. I had had the brakes bled before that but it goes back to practically nothing. It stops but something isn't right! The $800 master cylinder didn't help! There is no evidnce of leaking anywhere. I like my mechanic but I think he is lost on this one. Can you help?
Henry
I'm planning to order a set of CP9660 for my front brakes and keep my stock rears. Just not sure which Ferodo pads I'll want. I have been more than satisfied with Raybestos ST43 pads and am wondering if the DSUNO or DS1.11 will be closer to the Raybestos? Any thoughts?
Thanks
Johnny I have a nice 65 vette that I had a new master cylinder put on because there just wasn't enough room between having the brake pedal depressed and bottoming out. I had had the brakes bled before that but it goes back to practically nothing. It stops but something isn't right! The $800 master cylinder didn't help! There is no evidnce of leaking anywhere. I like my mechanic but I think he is lost on this one. Can you help?
Henry
The only $800 master cylinder that I know of for a '65 is a dual reservoir unit for PB. Do you in fact have power brakes, or was this selected as an "upgrade"?
If this is a replacement for your PB master cylinder, did you have this engagement problem before with the same type of unit, or did you have a single reservoir master cylinder before? The reason that I ask is the PB unit's piston diameter is 1/8" larger than that of the manual brake unit. The larger diameter will cause some loss of stopping power if used on manual brakes.
Other than that, maybe Johnnie C. has some insights that would lead to the correction of your problem. Good luck!
How call I tell if I should replace the CCB rotors on a 2016 C-7? I have replaced the stock pads with Carbotech XP10s. I have 8,000 miles on the car and 10 track days. Thanks.
How call I tell if I should replace the CCB rotors on a 2016 C-7? I have replaced the stock pads with Carbotech XP10s. I have 8,000 miles on the car and 10 track days. Thanks.
You need to weight them.
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How call I tell if I should replace the CCB rotors on a 2016 C-7? I have replaced the stock pads with Carbotech XP10s. I have 8,000 miles on the car and 10 track days. Thanks.
The rotors have a minimum thickness listed on them as well as the minimum weight. When I was checking my rotors I found the minimum thickness seemed to relate quite well with where the weight was. When the thickness was down to minimum the weight was just a few grams more than minimum weight. When you check weight make sure the rotors are clean and all of the dust is blown out of the holes and from between the two sides.
The rotors have a minimum thickness listed on them as well as the minimum weight....
Bill
Hi Bill
I think you may know a Charlotte C7 Z06/Z07 owner - Bill M.
He was down at Daytona for the Dec Audi HPDE. Before coming down he said he contacted a Brembo guy (apparently there's a Brembo facility somewhere up near you).
He asked the Brembo guy about running the rotors currently on his car. The Brembo guy say "weigh 'em!".
He did, and told the Brembo guy that they were only something like 68 grams above the minimum weight. The Brembo told him that he wouldn't recommend running them, due to he'd be down to minimum weight after one session. So he replaced them.
Do you have any thoughts on that - how much weight you'll burn off how quickly???
Personally, I'd probably have run the crap out of them at that one last HPDE, then replaced them. I know it will depend on track, driver, tires, etc., etc., but I just don't have any idea how much weight might be lost in a 25-30 minute track session.
I think you may know a Charlotte C7 Z06/Z07 owner - Bill M.
He was down at Daytona for the Dec Audi HPDE. Before coming down he said he contacted a Brembo guy (apparently there's a Brembo facility somewhere up near you).
He asked the Brembo guy about running the rotors currently on his car. The Brembo guy say "weigh 'em!".
He did, and told the Brembo guy that they were only something like 68 grams above the minimum weight. The Brembo told him that he wouldn't recommend running them, due to he'd be down to minimum weight after one session. So he replaced them.
Do you have any thoughts on that - how much weight you'll burn off how quickly???
Personally, I'd probably have run the crap out of them at that one last HPDE, then replaced them. I know it will depend on track, driver, tires, etc., etc., but I just don't have any idea how much weight might be lost in a 25-30 minute track session.
Bob
That's crazy to replace with 68 grams left! They only come in new at about 100 grams over the minimum weight listed on the rotor hat(fronts, rears are less). Granted you guys are talking C7 while I'm in a C6 so you will burn them up faster due to a heavier car. If you have GOOD cooling routed to them they will last a long time. I have a set I just pulled off that came in at 75 grams and I ran them for at least 5 or 6 events, but I'll have to check my logbook to verify. The key is to keep them cool at all cost. On the stock pad even when you over work the brakes the rotor temps stay out of the red zone because the pad just gives up and any sensible driver will back off on the pace or pit right away. The previous statement only applies with adequate cooling though. I think that Brembo guy was helping out the sales department lol.
Edit: Honestly I think most of my wear came from burnishing new pads in. I did it with the ducts taped up and all my temperature indicating paints and strips read the highest after burnishing new pads. Pretty brutal process in my opinion.
Last edited by phipp85; 12-20-2016 at 10:10 PM.
Reason: More info
I think you may know a Charlotte C7 Z06/Z07 owner - Bill M.
He was down at Daytona for the Dec Audi HPDE. Before coming down he said he contacted a Brembo guy (apparently there's a Brembo facility somewhere up near you).
He asked the Brembo guy about running the rotors currently on his car. The Brembo guy say "weigh 'em!".
He did, and told the Brembo guy that they were only something like 68 grams above the minimum weight. The Brembo told him that he wouldn't recommend running them, due to he'd be down to minimum weight after one session. So he replaced them.
Do you have any thoughts on that - how much weight you'll burn off how quickly???
Personally, I'd probably have run the crap out of them at that one last HPDE, then replaced them. I know it will depend on track, driver, tires, etc., etc., but I just don't have any idea how much weight might be lost in a 25-30 minute track session.
Bob
Originally Posted by phipp85
That's crazy to replace with 68 grams left! They only come in new at about 100 grams over the minimum weight listed on the rotor hat(fronts, rears are less). Granted you guys are talking C7 while I'm in a C6 so you will burn them up faster due to a heavier car. If you have GOOD cooling routed to them they will last a long time. I have a set I just pulled off that came in at 75 grams and I ran them for at least 5 or 6 events, but I'll have to check my logbook to verify. The key is to keep them cool at all cost. On the stock pad even when you over work the brakes the rotor temps stay out of the red zone because the pad just gives up and any sensible driver will back off on the pace or pit right away. The previous statement only applies with adequate cooling though. I think that Brembo guy was helping out the sales department lol.
Edit: Honestly I think most of my wear came from burnishing new pads in. I did it with the ducts taped up and all my temperature indicating paints and strips read the highest after burnishing new pads. Pretty brutal process in my opinion.
I can't say whether or not he should have replaced them with only 68 grams above minimum weight remaining. Each rotor weighs a slightly different amount and I don't have any idea what my rotors originally weighed. I know the difference in minimum weight between the two is 66 grams. One has a minimum weight of 6018 grams and the other is 5952 grams. Due to some difficulties in removing the rotors I resorted to checking the minimum thickness with a brake rotor gauge. The minimum thickness of each is 35.5 mm. Before I went to Watkins Glen for a two day school they were sitting at ~ 36.3, afterwards they were sitting at ~35.8. It was obvious at that wear rate I wasn't going to make it through the next two day school with those rotors. That is also when I started inspecting the groove that was developing just outside the rotor hat mounting points. That groove was easily an 1/8 in deep (based on the corresponding ridge that developed on all 4 brake pads after I installed brand new pads while at the Glen) on both sides of the rotor or about 3 mm which meant that portion of the rotor was well below the minimum thickness. When I removed the rotors and weighed them they were both within 50 grams of minimum weight. That is why I think you need to check both minimum weight and minimum thickness. I don't know what kind of stresses impact a ceramic rotor but my gut was telling me those grooves on each rotor were a weak point and I had to address it.
10-17-2016, 11:20 AM
