Matt_27

Looking for some pad advice. Application is a stock engined C5 on 295 square 200tw street tires, AP racing sprint kit with brake ducts and backing plates. Looking to drive the car to the track and do 20-30 min sessions, don't want to change the pads at the track. Also planning on One Lap of America in May, so the pads need to "do it all." I have tried Ferodo DS 2500s and they wore ~25% of their life after one day, then I tried DS 1.11s and they squealed like crazy the entire time driving to and on the track, only time they didn't make noise was coming into 10a at Rd Atl when I was braking the hardest. I am talking LOUD squealing, my instructor was weirded out by how loud they were. I liked their braking performance but would prefer less noise.

MINDENNV

I have had good luck with Carobech XP10 compound. Mild squeaking and minor dust. Call Adam .

FASTFATBOY

Rotor life or pad life, pick one.

UstaB-GS549

I have the AP T1 kit on the front and have not had the terrible squealing you describe with Ferodo DS 1.11 pads. I did have that problem with some other pad. It might have been Raybestos. I ground the leading edge of the pad with a small bevel and that eliminated all but a small amount of squeaking. I used a bench grinder, but you could use a rasp and hand file them too. I think the sharp corner digs in sometimes and sets up the high frequency vibration.

mikeCsix

It seems to me the squealing problem with track pads is they are not up to the temperature range they were designed for. I know when I put my XP-10's on at home, they squeal all the way to the track and back. They only stop squealing when I get them to temp on the track. I'm tempted to try XP-8 to see if it cuts down the squeal while on the streets but stay within its temp range while on the track.

brkntrxn

G-Loc r10s or r8s will do the trick for you.

From your description, you were never getting the DS 1.11s hot enough except in 10a. That is why they did not squeal in that braking zone. What is interesting is the DS 1.11 is only a 392-1292*F pad. If that is the case, you may want to use a G-Loc r8 instead (74-1250*F).


-Kevin

Adam@Amp'dAutosport.com

I would go with the Carbotech XP10 front XP8 rear. This combo will do track and Auto X plus be fine for street driving. If interested let me know PM,email or call me 216-780-8825 I will be happy to get you set up.

Carbotech™ XP10™

When Carbotech™ unleashed the XP10™ to the general public it immediately gathered multiple regional, divisional, and national championships. The XP10™ has a very strong initial bite with a coefficient of friction and rotor friendliness unmatched in the industry. Fade resistance is in excess of 1475°F (801°C). XP10™ still maintains the highly praised release, excellent modulation and rotor friendliness that have made all Carbotech™ compounds so successful. Carbotech™ XP10™ is not recommended as a daily-driven street pad due to possible elevated levels of dust and noise.


Carbotech™ XP8™

A high torque brake compound with a wide operating temperature range of 200°F-1250°F+ (93°C to 676°C+). Carbotech™ XP8™ is the first of our racing compounds. Good initial bite at race temperatures, high coefficient of friction, excellent modulation and release characteristics. Extremely high fade resistance and very rotor friendly. Perfect for track day use with any tire and can still be driven safely to and from the track. Carbotech™ does NOT recommended XP8™ as a daily driven street pad due to elevated levels of dust and noise. Carbotech™ XP8™ is a great compound on the front & rear of most open wheel and sports racers.

Rx7Rob

So what happened to Johnny C?? He hasn't logged in a while.

NemesisC5

Is it possible the combination of street and track driving temperatures altered the characteristics of the pad material?

Matt_27

Thanks for the suggestions guys. Seems like mixed feedback here and other places on the street-worthiness of Carbotech/G-Loc "10" compound, 8 seems like a safer bet. I see that XP8's are quoted at 200F starting temp range and R8's are 74F, but aren't they the same compound? Chamfering the pad edges is also a good tip.

I can definitely believe I wasn't getting the DS1.11's up to temp, lots of traffic at the track so I couldn't get many hard stops in a row. When I was able to hammer on them for a lap or two they were much happier.

brkntrxn

Possible, but I doubt it. If he glazed them from the street driving, that could be what happened.

Poor-sha

My experience has been that once the DS 1.11's are properly bedded they don't squeal. If you then leave and drive them on the street you will eventually wear off the transfer layer and they will squeal again. I've not had any issues with the DS2500 squealing on the street and I run them as my street pad.

naschmitz

My experience is exactly the same.

daleong

Ditto.. but I use the DSUNO's.

Sunnyd1960

I want to put anti squeak sleeves on my 76 C3.
Brakes are new...just squeak when rolling without applying pressure.
Is this a good fix?
Easy to install?
Thanks

iberico

Does anyone know if carbon-carbon discs and pads such as those used in Lemans, Japan Super GT, etc. can be used on the street safely? I understand they need some heat to get them to work but how much are we talking?

I don't want conjectures from people who have zero experience, I would like opinions and facts from people who have personally used high end C-C race discs on the street.

Note: I am not referring to street friendly CCM or carbon ceramic matrix stuff like those found on high end road going cars (Porsche Turbo S, ZR1, etc.)

JRitt@essex

Negative ghost-rider. Carbon-carbon brake systems are not appropriate for road use. They don't generate adequate friction cold for grocery chasing. I don't have anything to precisely quantify this in front of me, but this isn't conjuncture. I have a brake dyno about 30 feet from my office on which we frequently do testing of these systems. Most commonly we do work with IndyCar teams. They use a brembo carbon-carbon system. They are also hideously expensive.

If you want the weight savings of carbon, go with one of our Essex Designed AP Racing iron kits. Our kits typically weigh closer to the equivalent Carbon Ceramic OEM systems, while retaining the benefits of iron discs under extreme track pummeling. On the C7Z06 for example, our kits weigh almost identical to the Z07 CCM option brakes, but our discs will last far longer and cost about 1/5th as much to replace.

blkbrd69

As to the comments "my track pads squeak/dust/don't stop ext. on the street":
That is because they are track pads. Every real track pad I have tried on the street squeals like an old school bus while cold & when the bedding is worn off the rotor.

Pads have to be matched to the car, driver, tires & track;
XP8's may work on the front for some drivers on some low energy tracks running street tires. However "for me" I have not found any Carbotech pad that lasts worth a dam on the front at Sebring or Daytona on a C6 or C6Z running scrubs. Front XP12's & 20's lasted only 3 days for me at Sebring, rears not a problem.

I also despise when pad resellers cut and paste manufacturer generic pad descriptions, not specific to our cars that are not even close to being true for many tracks. Appreciate sellers that have first hand knowledge and are willing to share recommendations and testing data.

Generally when a pad is advertised as "being easy on rotors" that can be read as you will be burning up $400 worth of pads a weekend, but those cheap stock rotors will last????

I have found that Raybestos ST-47 front matched to ST-45 or 43 rear work well for me and last much better. Followed by Cobalt XR1&XR2 then Hawk 70/60.

Get good at changing pads. You can do them at home drive around for a week then go to track. Think of the squeal as track cred. Carbotech are sensitive to bedding where Cobalt last better and are not as sensitive. Hawk are great and the 70/60 seemed great however the dust is nasty if not washed off immediately. Just about destroyed a set of stock chrome wheels driving home after a track day, in the rain dust turned into corrosive concrete.

Now the G-Loc R10/R8 work fantastic on my Miata, going on 6 track days & look like they have 2 sessions on them. I guess 450 hp more and 1000 lbs more really make a difference?

Never seen a pad "glaze" or a rotor warp. Now cracked rotors, uneven pad bedding buildup & unevenly worn pads with stock calipers is the norm.

0Todd TCE

^^^Couldn't agree more with the above statement on pad compounds. This is true regardless of the brand.

As I told someone the other day: anyone you call who tells you pad x is the greatest all around street and race pad...hang up.

Pad changing it not hard, nor is it easy. But for proper use and life expectancy it is a necessity.

R_W

Here's a braking question more from the cooling standpoint.

If calipers work by squeezing the pads against the rotors, and it causes friction, and thus heat on both sides of the rotors, why are all brake ducts designed to cool only the inside of the rotors?
Furthermore, why has nobody designed a caliper shaped / sized duct that would fit around the rotor in the same fashion and cool BOTH sides of the rotor? If the caliper fits, and the cooling duct/plate is the same size/shape, it would fit inside the wheel.
Anyone have any thoughts/ideas/opinions?