vette ruminator

On June 1, I was headed to the track and "Service tire monitor" came on about 35 min after leaving home. I was able to get the system to reset except for one wheel using my TPMS tool. It seemed to read again after I put some air in the tire and let it out. I went on the track for a 20 minute HPDE session and after 18 minutes the service tire monitor light came back on and all of the traction control systems turned on and were extra sensitive, depressing the brakes at the slightest turn. This happened several times until it would not reset at all. I had it reset at a nearby dealer (the first TPMS tool they tried would not reset it but a more elaborate tool did) but the light came back on during the next session. There were multiple XXs on the tire pressure monitors: right front and both rears. Neither my stock wheels nor my second set of OEM wheels with OEM sensors would reset the system with my TPMS tool. At my nearby dealer they replaced some of the tire pressure monitors on the original wheels then replaced the sensor module (the first one they ordered was bad so they had to replace it twice). They had to reprogram the key fobs and the car was ok for the few rides I took in it which were less than an hour long.

On 7/10/15 the service tire monitor came on during the drive up to Road America; it came on about an hour into the ride. I was able to reset it using my tpms tool but it kept happening after 18 min of driving. When I could reset it the horn would beep for the tool but the tire pressure did not change its reading on the dic. I think it never really communicated with the module because the light would come on again after 18 min. This kept happening about 4 times until it stopped taking the reset altogether. There was one episode on the track when I had it in driver setting 2 and the settings for driver setting 1 came on without pushing any buttons. After 18 min the DIC read "service tire pressure monitor, traction control off" and all the nannies would kick in.

I found a mechanic at the track who works on C6s and the only way to get the car to stop turning on all the nannies on the most sensitive setting was to unplug the steering wheel position sensor wire located in the driver side footwell underneath the steering column to disable active handling. The DIC read “service active handling” but the electronic systems didn't interfere with driving the car. After that the only working tire pressure monitor on the left front wheel seemed to read correctly but the other 3 did not. This problem keeps coming back and keeps ruining my track outings. The key fob seems to work intermittently with opening the trunk, etc. despite a new fob battery installed in June. I assume it's the same issue as the as the sensor.

It's not the indivual TPMS sensors as it happens with new sensors installed and it happens with my track wheels. It can't be that 4 or 6 different batteries on different wheels have all gone out at the same time.

I have seen some posts that think there is interference with the sensor system in some way from either plugging an accessory into the cigarette lighter instead of the plug on the console or some sort of Bluetooth interference.

I do plug in my phone into the cigarette lighter to use a nav app on the way to the track, and I plug in the phone to use a lap timer at the track; could I that be it?? Has anyone had this happen and solved this issue? Not sure why the problem persists at the dealer when my phone is not even there. I hope the answer is not to just avoid using my phone for either application... I use an iPhone5 for nav and I have been using a separate iPhone5 for Harry's Lap timer.

The car is a 2011 ZR1. I have used the same phone and apps for much longer than this issue; it just started recently.

Thanks for the input!

Bill Dearborn

It could be an issue with the electronics in the car. The RCDLR module is the one that communicates with the sensors and it communicates with the electronics in the IPC the tire pressure, pressure change, etc. The BCM is also involved but the explanation of what it does isn't available. I suspect it gets involved when there is a low pressure, 0 pressure or dead sensor issue and sends messages to the EBCM that direct it to control speed in corners by using the brakes.

I don't have the 2011 FSM but I do have the 2009 FSM. A lot of the ZR1 updates were performed in 2009 so there is a good chance the car electronics are the same. Here is the description of the system from the 09 FSM:

Tire Pressure Monitor Description and Operation
The tire pressure monitor (TPM) system warns the driver when a significant loss, or gain of tire pressure occurs in any of the 4 tires and allows the driver to display the individual tire pressures and their locations on the driver information center (DIC).
The system uses the body control module (BCM), driver information center (DIC), instrument panel cluster (IPC), remote control door lock receiver (RCDLR), a radio frequency (RF) transmitting pressure sensor in each wheel/tire assembly, and the serial data circuit to perform the system functions. Each sensor has an internal power supply with a 10 year service life.
When the vehicle is stationary, the sensors internal accelerometer is inactive, which puts the sensors into a stationary state. In this state the sensors sample tire pressure once every 30 seconds and do not transmit at all if the tire pressure does not change. As vehicle speed increases, centrifugal force activates the sensors internal accelerometer causing the sensors to go into rolling mode. In this mode, the sensors sample tire pressure once every 30 seconds and transmit in rolling mode once every 60 seconds. The RCDLR receives and translates the data contained in each sensors RF transmission into sensor presence, sensor mode, and tire pressure. The RCDLR sends the tire pressure and tire location data to the DIC via the serial data circuit where they are displayed.
The sensors continuously compare their last pressure sample to their current pressure sample and will transmit in re-measure mode if a 8.3 kPa (1.2 psi) change in tire pressure has been detected in either a stationary or rolling state. When the TPM system detects a significant loss, or gain of tire pressure, the tire pressure monitor indicator icon is illuminated on the IPC and if equipped, a check tire pressure type message is displayed on the DIC. Both the indicator icon and DIC message can be cleared by adjusting the tire pressures to the recommended kPa/psi and driving the vehicle above 40 km/h (25 mph) for at least 2 minutes.
If power is disconnected from the RCDLR or if the vehicle battery is disconnected each TPM sensor ID is retained but all of the tire pressure information is lost. Under these circumstances the RCDLR cannot assume that the tire pressures were maintained over an unknown period of time. If equipped, the DIC will display all dashes and the scan tool will indicate a default tire pressure value of 1020 kPa (148 psi) for each tire. Driving the vehicle above 40 km/h (25 mph) for at least 2 minutes will activate the sensors causing the DIC to display the current tire pressures. The J-46079 TPM special tool may also be used to activate the sensors as well.
The RCDLR has the ability to detect malfunctions within the TPM system. In the event a DTC is set, the tire pressure monitor indicator icon on the IPC will flash for 1 minute and then remain illuminated after the ignition is turned ON and the IPC bulb check has been completed. Any malfunction detected will cause the DIC to display a service tire monitor system type message. For more information on other functions of the RCDLR, refer to Keyless Entry System Description and Operation .



It might be a good idea to check the RCDLR's power, ground and data connections especially if you are having any other issues such as unusual door opening issues. The RCDLR communicates with the BCM on the Class 2 buss through Splice Pack 208.

One thing that is obvious from the RCDLR codes is it doesn't have the capability to diagnose failures in itself.

Since the TP Sensors communicate with the RCDLR over an RF link it is also a good idea to make sure the module's antenna hasn't been disturbed or obstructed in some way.

Bill

vette ruminator

Thanks Bill. They reset the system and think that it is ok so far. When I pick up the car I will test out the interference issue also.

Freebird427

"
I have seen some posts that think there is interference with the sensor system in some way from either plugging an accessory into the cigarette lighter instead of the plug on the console or some sort of Bluetooth interference.


Interesting, I've had 3 "Service tire monitor" messages in the last month. The first time I put it down to a spinning a 180 getting the car turned around. When it happened 2 more times over the next few weeks we were driving the car pretty strait.

Looking back, all 3 of those times were the only times I had the Valentine V1 in the car...

FB

vette ruminator

I guess the confusing part is that if it is active interference why is there still a problem when the phone is not on and nothing is plugged into either lighter socket? I came home after the June event and tried switching from stock wheels to track wheels and I couldn't get the TPMS tool to work even though the phone was not plugged in...

vette ruminator

Spoke with the dealer today. They had reset the system and all was ok. They hooked up an iPhone to test the inference issue without plugging it in and the TPMs was ok but other weirdness started up: the A/C came on, the radio came on, and the DIC showed startup messages. Has anyone experienced trouble with iPhones recently??

froggy47

vette ruminator

The dealer has been in touch with GM tech who apparently have been working on an iPhone solution for months. It sounds like turning off the Bluetooth in the car may be a solution. I have to think they can do better than that... hope to hear back soon.

vette ruminator

Got a call from the dealer that GM wrote a new program to upload that should fix the problem, but will WIPE OUT THE RADIO. Are they serious?

2 GTOs

I've been going through something similar. Over the weekend I lost all 4 signals. As I pulled my charger out of the console outlet all 4 signals came back immediately. I watched it on the DIC literally as the charger broke contact. Duracell usb charger, Amazon basics wire, iPhone 6 plugged in, running waze.

Come to think of it, the only time in recent months I did not have a tpms problem after about a half hour, I did not have the phone charging.

My dealer was planning to replace RDCLR but apparently they are on back order. But now that I see this connection, I may hold off to see if a different charger and wire work. Crazy stuff.

2 GTOs

Anything specific you can pass on that I can share with my dealer would be helpful.

When they say wipe out the radio, I assume they just mean station presets etc

vette ruminator

I just picked up the car. The software rewrite the GM geek squad came up with called for eliminating the use of the radio, not just the presets. I did not have them install it. There was malfunction (with the AC turning on by itself and some other crazy things but not tire monitor issues) when the tech hooked up his own phone without plugging it in, so it's possible the plug may have something to do with it (either the type of whether it's plugged into he cigarette lighter or the console) or it may be the phone software or the bluetooth.

I just drive the car 40 min without plugging the phone in and with Bluetooth on the phone turned off and no problems. I'll try turning the Bluetooth on in the phone but not having it pair with the car to see if that is ok later. I do want the Bluetooth in the phone to be able to communicate with the Bluetooth in my external GPS for my lap timer.

2 GTOs

Eliminate the radio. Wow, just wow.

Keep us posted, I will do the same. But I must say, I always lost both rears at once, then fronts one at a time. Drive long enough and they would usually come back.

The fact that all 4 came back instantaneously when I removed my charge, makes me think that was the problem. I read a lot about insufficient shielding in many of the charges and wires that messes with the phones themselves.

I am considering this could be the problem more and more.

For the person that had problems with the V1, I use a V1 fairly regularly with the mirror power tap and have not had a problem.

I had a G8 with a supercharger kit and a boost a pump. It wreaked havoc on my tpms until I wrapped it in a dozen layers of aluminum foil (it was located in the trunk).

I believe this electrical stuff can do crazy things.

vette ruminator

Update: I agree with 2GTOs.

I spent a silly amount of time and gas today testing what could be causing the TPMs interference. When I plugged in an aftermarket cigarette lighter-to-USB plug in the console (not in the cigarette lighter), there was a tire sensor warning light at 57 minutes, which is the same as the last time this happened. The service tire monitor message did not display, and the sensors read numbers, not XX. I unplugged it, turned the car off and back on, and the TPMs warning did not come back on again after 1.5 hours of driving. This did not happen with another charger, so I have found at least one that works.

I had my Valentine plugged into its rearview mirror power source, and both my regular phone and my Harry's lap timer extra phone were on, with Bluetooth on but not paired to the car. So far I may have found a compromise solution that will allow me to use my lap timer without killing the TPMs.

Also as an FYI, my dealer service writer told me that if I can't get the TPMs light to clear after I've removed all the culprits that if I unhooked the battery cables and touched them to each other that will reset the electronic systems in the car. So far I have not had to do this but it is good to know there is a DIY if needed.

The bottom line is that this seems to confirm that external electronics seem to be the problem with the TPMs in these cars if it is acting as described in my original post. It could be the Bluetooth from the phone, the charging cable, etc and it may even be different for each car, but starting with eliminating the external electronics should be the place to start tackling this annoying problem. Hope this helps.

2 GTOs

Drove over an hour today. iPhone 6 on, used waze app part of the time, no issues. I did not use the USB charger I thought was causing the problem (see my prior post).

I will try it a few more times, but the only time I have not had the tpms error seems to be the 2 times when that USB charger was not plugged in.

vette ruminator

I was at the track yesterday; I did not plug in my USB charger on the way to or from the track . I recharged the phone using an external battery pack at lunch. No issues; my Z and I can go back to the task of tire/gas/brake consumption.

2 GTOs

I have now taken at least 3 2-4 hour drives without the USB charger and no error. Prior to this, every single time I would get an error within an hour, no exceptions. Every time I had the USB charger plugged in.

Given the back order on RCDL units, I'm gonna guess GM may not have realized this connection.

RedriderC6

Hi Bill, thank you for the very in-depth information on RCDLR. my problem started when I added a dash cam/GPS unit Auto-Vox D1 with a multi adapter ( also able to charge my IPhone at the same time) My 2006 does not have a Nav. package just the 6CD player/radio. I was wondering if my Bluetooth cell phone when charging was causing possible interference with the RF signal from the tire sensors. My adapter is plugged into the centre console between the seats not the cigarette lighter adapter. if I was to disconnect the battery cables ( leave for 1 hour) and remove dash cam and cell phones from the car would this possibly correct this problem? Is there another way of resetting the car programming? By the way is the RCDLR on the passenger door side on my 2006 C6?

Thanks

Mike

RedriderC6

Hi Bill did you receive my e-mail reply to your in-depth review on the RCDLR module. your input is needed as to whether my dash cam or IPhone (Bluetooth)signal could be interfering with the tire sensor RF signal?

Thanks again,
Mike

Bill Dearborn

Mike,
I did see your PM today and had to do a little searching to find this thread.

The TPMS broadcast frequency is at the 315 or 433 MHZ range. Bluetooth at 2483 MHZ is about an order of magnitude greater than that. There shouldn't be any interference between the two. If interference is an issue just put your cell phone in air plane mode and turn off the dash cam and any plug in devices that might be communicating with your iPhone via Bluetooth. If interference is occurring the TPMS sensors will start working again. No need to do a reset.

The RCDLR is located behind the center dash in the C6. I am attaching the RCDLR replacement instructions so you can see where it is located. PMs won’t let me attach PDF files or insert pictures from my PC so I will attach it to this post.

Bill