TREMEC T56 - TR-6060 sequential gear system
09-02-2015, 01:06 PM
#4
Race Director
Take a look at:
http://www.ppgearbox.com.au/page.asp...rs®ionid=12
Also, look down on page 12 of their catalog to see prices on their sequentials for the Vette:
http://www.ppgearbox.com.au//files/p...202015_web.pdf
Looks like $14,369.25 which is quite a bit less expensive than other sequential setups I've seen for the Vette.
Might be something to look into for a pure track car.
.
http://www.ppgearbox.com.au/page.asp...rs®ionid=12
Also, look down on page 12 of their catalog to see prices on their sequentials for the Vette:
http://www.ppgearbox.com.au//files/p...202015_web.pdf
Looks like $14,369.25 which is quite a bit less expensive than other sequential setups I've seen for the Vette.
Might be something to look into for a pure track car.
.
09-02-2015, 03:09 PM
#5
Racer
I see.
$14369.25 is for the gear kit only.
MTI sells this kit installed into your transmission for $19,995.00 plus shipping. Comes with level and ECU though.
I think, it's one of the cheapest setups on the market, but still to expensive for club racing.
$14369.25 is for the gear kit only.
MTI sells this kit installed into your transmission for $19,995.00 plus shipping. Comes with level and ECU though.
I think, it's one of the cheapest setups on the market, but still to expensive for club racing.
09-03-2015, 11:48 AM
#6
Melting Slicks
TREMEC T56 - TR-6060 sequential gear system
What's that estimated lap time benefit on let's say a 3 mile track? It would have to be pretty good. I know when I'm chasing around a 997.2 cup they will take 2 gears on a section that I will run though in 3rd till the next corner. I know I have more torque but still get pulled a car and a half.
Last edited by z06801; 09-03-2015 at 12:09 PM.
09-03-2015, 12:32 PM
#7
Safety Car
That is a highly debated/misunderstood point (with a number of variables and complex calculations). Safest answer is that with a full feedback (aka "closed loop") sequential system, the main advantages are consistent chassis stability and longer trans life. Here is a (very) brief overview re gains from a respected sequential system supplier:
While on the subject of shift times, we have read claims on one of our rivals websites (and rather amusingly, blatantly copied on another) of performance gains of 1/5 of a second per gear shift. Compared with what, exactly? 1/5 of a second is 200ms, which is actually longer than a decent driver will take to change gear using a stick! So where does the saving come from? Of course there are no such like for like savings. Even if the shift time was reduced from 200ms to zero, there would not be a corresponding track time saving of 200ms because the vehicle still has forward velocity during the shift. The only saving comes from the extra time that the vehicle would be accelerating, which isn't going to add up to much over a period of 200ms unless you have a hyper-performance car! That's not to say that there aren't worthwhile savings to be made over a race distance, but we don't sell our system on that basis.
While on the subject of shift times, we have read claims on one of our rivals websites (and rather amusingly, blatantly copied on another) of performance gains of 1/5 of a second per gear shift. Compared with what, exactly? 1/5 of a second is 200ms, which is actually longer than a decent driver will take to change gear using a stick! So where does the saving come from? Of course there are no such like for like savings. Even if the shift time was reduced from 200ms to zero, there would not be a corresponding track time saving of 200ms because the vehicle still has forward velocity during the shift. The only saving comes from the extra time that the vehicle would be accelerating, which isn't going to add up to much over a period of 200ms unless you have a hyper-performance car! That's not to say that there aren't worthwhile savings to be made over a race distance, but we don't sell our system on that basis.
09-03-2015, 12:33 PM
#8
Racer
What's that estimated lap time benefit on let's say a 3 mile track? It would have to be pretty good. I know when I'm chasing around a 997.2 cup they will take 2 gears on a section that I will run though in 3rd till the next corner. I know I have more torque but still get pulled a car and a half.
09-03-2015, 03:35 PM
#9
Melting Slicks
TREMEC T56 - TR-6060 sequential gear system
It would seem to me that the lap times would benefit more from the tighter gearing. For example at the end of Millers front straight a cup would be nearing the top of its 6th gear, where I'm am 5th maybe at 5000 rpm. To do all that shifting with a H pattern would be hard to do. Might need paddles to take full advantage of it.
09-03-2015, 03:36 PM
#10
That is a highly debated/misunderstood point (with a number of variables and complex calculations). Safest answer is that with a full feedback (aka "closed loop") sequential system, the main advantages are consistent chassis stability and longer trans life. Here is a (very) brief overview re gains from a respected sequential system supplier:
While on the subject of shift times, we have read claims on one of our rivals websites (and rather amusingly, blatantly copied on another) of performance gains of 1/5 of a second per gear shift. Compared with what, exactly? 1/5 of a second is 200ms, which is actually longer than a decent driver will take to change gear using a stick! So where does the saving come from? Of course there are no such like for like savings. Even if the shift time was reduced from 200ms to zero, there would not be a corresponding track time saving of 200ms because the vehicle still has forward velocity during the shift. The only saving comes from the extra time that the vehicle would be accelerating, which isn't going to add up to much over a period of 200ms unless you have a hyper-performance car! That's not to say that there aren't worthwhile savings to be made over a race distance, but we don't sell our system on that basis.
While on the subject of shift times, we have read claims on one of our rivals websites (and rather amusingly, blatantly copied on another) of performance gains of 1/5 of a second per gear shift. Compared with what, exactly? 1/5 of a second is 200ms, which is actually longer than a decent driver will take to change gear using a stick! So where does the saving come from? Of course there are no such like for like savings. Even if the shift time was reduced from 200ms to zero, there would not be a corresponding track time saving of 200ms because the vehicle still has forward velocity during the shift. The only saving comes from the extra time that the vehicle would be accelerating, which isn't going to add up to much over a period of 200ms unless you have a hyper-performance car! That's not to say that there aren't worthwhile savings to be made over a race distance, but we don't sell our system on that basis.
Question on the transmission discussed here, is this a clutchless down shift too, or just upshifts? Apparently the shifting mechanism varies for sequentals, as I see some in car footage where the clutch is never used after the car starts moving. Others, like the Aus. V8 Supercars, flat upshift, but still clutch and heel/toe the downshifts. I'm guessing there is some electronic aids that work on the clutchless down shift models? Just curious, always thought the more manually operated sequential was the best compromise transmission if you want to ditch the H pattern, but still like sort of rowing gears.
09-03-2015, 04:03 PM
#11
Safety Car
Regarding gearing, yes there is a chance of gains, but it depends on the tq curve and of course you'll have to factor in shift times. The LS torque curve (unless a non-standard config) is pretty good (esp vs P-car) so it is less sensitive to ratios.
If you can put a pneumatic actuator on the trans (and have proper closed loop trans shifter control as well as throttle control, not just "blind" tq cut times), you can stick to two pedals (and two paddles) on the track.
If you can put a pneumatic actuator on the trans (and have proper closed loop trans shifter control as well as throttle control, not just "blind" tq cut times), you can stick to two pedals (and two paddles) on the track.
Last edited by RX-Ben; 09-03-2015 at 04:05 PM.
09-03-2015, 05:35 PM
#12
Former Vendor
Member Since: Aug 2005
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St. Jude Donor '03-'04-'05-'06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13
While, yes PPG does make a gear set and adapted a shift mechanism to make it a sequential shifter this is NOT THE SAME as a EMCO/Hollinger/Xtrac race box.
These still rely on the restrictions of the case on the T56/6060 which does not allow for that big of a main shaft, wider gears, a bigger selection of ratios, or other things that you find in a "real gearbox"
http://www.corvetteonline.com/news/a...tial-gear-box/
You will not find gun drilled main shafts with pressurized oiling passage ways. You will not find larger straight cut gear sets, you will not have an internal filtration system. You will not see a choice of over 45 different gear ratio setups. The Emco boxes are also typically 20lbs lighter than that of a T56/6060 gear box.
And yes, now they do offer a pneumatic paddle shift system if you want to get to that F1 shift speed
Either way you do have options but do note.....they are not the same internally as what you might think they are.
These still rely on the restrictions of the case on the T56/6060 which does not allow for that big of a main shaft, wider gears, a bigger selection of ratios, or other things that you find in a "real gearbox"
http://www.corvetteonline.com/news/a...tial-gear-box/
You will not find gun drilled main shafts with pressurized oiling passage ways. You will not find larger straight cut gear sets, you will not have an internal filtration system. You will not see a choice of over 45 different gear ratio setups. The Emco boxes are also typically 20lbs lighter than that of a T56/6060 gear box.
And yes, now they do offer a pneumatic paddle shift system if you want to get to that F1 shift speed
Either way you do have options but do note.....they are not the same internally as what you might think they are.
11-16-2015, 12:33 PM
#13
Former Vendor
We have special pricing for the PRI Trade Show this year. $19k with shifter. Customer supplies a good core and pays for shipping. Offer is good until next year. 50% deposit required. We have a few units already built. The core value is $3k.
11-22-2015, 04:17 PM
#14
Bit of a thread resurrection but I have a PPG sequential in my C6 Z06. I am the first Australian Corvette installation and have been working with PPG on a few things.
The box itself is a very nice piece of kit and anyone who knows anything about gearsets knows PPG know their stuff and make good quality gear.
I use the Lingenfelter LNC-TC1 and load cell **** for the shift cut. I still have a couple of bugs we are trying to iron out of the shift cut electronics, not totally happy with it yet, but getting close I hope. I would love to talk to someone with experience with the LNC-TC1 and the Z06, might save me from wasting more time. cheers!
The box itself is a very nice piece of kit and anyone who knows anything about gearsets knows PPG know their stuff and make good quality gear.
I use the Lingenfelter LNC-TC1 and load cell **** for the shift cut. I still have a couple of bugs we are trying to iron out of the shift cut electronics, not totally happy with it yet, but getting close I hope. I would love to talk to someone with experience with the LNC-TC1 and the Z06, might save me from wasting more time. cheers!
11-25-2015, 11:40 AM
#18
i think speed south uses the emco. and to make it run right you need a motec ecu. it's the right way to do sequential but $$$
that video really shows you the power of power. that astin had a way better run out of oak tree, but it was lunch meat by the end of the straight.
that video really shows you the power of power. that astin had a way better run out of oak tree, but it was lunch meat by the end of the straight.
Last edited by johnny c; 11-25-2015 at 11:48 AM.
11-25-2015, 12:21 PM
#19
3rd Gear
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No you don't need the motec, that car does not have it, uses the GM ecu with their electronics. Trans up shifts 45 ms. down shifts no problems with their blip throttle they developed to work with ecu
Last edited by activepower; 11-25-2015 at 12:22 PM.
11-25-2015, 02:50 PM
#20
