63Corvette

http://www.mystatesman.com/news/news...emium-referral

Robert R1

Bring it to the Sonoma instead and have the SF hipsters subsidize it without knowing.

froggy47

Aside from this disagreement over the deal between the state of Texas and the developers, my "looking back" at whether I was going or not, is that I'm glad I didn't.

The weather issue will probably never happen again, but the over priced lodging and difficult transportation issues (to/from track) factor into my decision.

Going to try Montreal instead. 2016.

I have heard on another thread that's it's $450. plus a day to do a DE on the track & very limited availability. Not feeling so bad about $100-$200. a day on the SoCal tracks within a 1-2.5 hour drive.

Not F1 tracks, but just sayin.

ooldguy93

I ran a track weekend there last year

$1000 for the weekend

I was told the track rental = $100k for a weekend

The track ( at that time ) would not publish a calendar for their season events and I was told " they don't rent the track and you'll have to contact the organization that is " ( without knowing who it is )

On the other hand - a knock out facility, very smooth and very apparent somebody spent a ton-o-dough

Robert R1

Let's be honest. Cota is the only decent Tilke designed F1 track.

Could be worse, you would be paying as much or more to run Yas Marina :cringe

Zoxxo

Nope. The drivers and critics all loved Turkey. Still a pretty small percentage, though.

At this point I suspect that Bernie gets a kickback from Tilke since TOO MANY of the new tracks seem to just "go to Tilke" without so much as a complaint from anyone. Just seems a bit too cozy. But then, it's Bernie and F1.

Z//

Zoxxo

Sonoma is not SF. SF would have zero say in the race going to Sonoma nor in any of the financing. And, btw, SF is no more "hipsters" than Los Angeles is "movie stars."

There is no way that F1 would ever go to Sonoma. The county folks would listen to Bernie and laugh him out of town. They'd never put up with his monetary nonsense. Additionally, they'd never in a million years pony up the money needed to turn Sonoma into an F1-rated track (ruining Sonoma forever, btw.)

I was watching the Sky F1 show where they talked to Bernie and he was (as usual) blabbing on about how he wants 3 more U.S. races, blah, blah, and how "they" are working on another F1 race in California. The Sky "experts" immediately jumped to Laguna Seca as an option which demonstrated THEIR complete ignorance about the politics, funding, and story re: Laguna Seca. But hey, F1 at the corkscrew! How bitchin'!

If COTA needs that "mere" extra $6 million in order to survive and Bernie ultimately fails to keep COTA in the game, then he, and we, can forever kiss F1 goodbye in the United States. Bernie says out loud (to Putin's radio lackeys) that he "doesn't like democracy" and it's certainly not hard to understand why. But America IS (sort of) a democracy and there is simply no way that the populace will give Bernie the keys to the treasury like all those other places he has robbed where the people have no say. Not gonna happen. Period. So, if Bernie really means what he says re: America having multiple races then he's going to have to rethink the financing, eat a few million bucks, and play the long game. Just what private investor(s) would THINK of ponying up the money needed to fund a new race (and track?) immediately after Bernie has said "f**k 'em!" to COTA???

I wouldn't hold my breath, though. It's like asking him to diss his own religion.

Edit:

Here:

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns32420.html

Note the last three paragraphs.

"Some of them are just dreamers and actually don't understand the undertaking, and once that's realised - what is required - it kind of fizzles out."

Yeah, what is required is handing over essentially all profit to Bernie.

Z//

talon95

I went in 2008. Lots of fun and a great city. No regrets.

VetteDrmr

Z,

I lived in TX when CotA planning/construction was underway, and, as much as I loved the idea of an F1 track in the US, I was SO glad when the state government tied the state's participation to the actual financial performance of the events at the track. I hope the track owners/organizers can come up with the extra funds, but I doubt they'll be able to keep it going for much longer.

Have a good one,
Mike

Robert R1

I knew someone was going to call me out on Istanbul That quad left hander is amazing.

Too bad it's now a car sales lot.

Zoxxo

Absolutely! Montreal is a great city and a good place to see F1.

Z//

fatbillybob

I got lucky was one of the 1st amateurs to race CoTA with SCCA for only $650bucks for the weekend. SCCA has not been back. I can guess the reasons. CoTA mgmt had their heads was deep up their &*^%$.

I plan for montreal 2016 too.

I don't think Laguna can be counted out. The animal rights liberal prius drivers might go for F1 at LS if the money is right. The track was refurbished quite nice for motoGP. The features put in place would work quite well for F1.

Long Beach, WGI, and Indy were past F1 sites. I can see any of those venues working too. I would be all over F1 at WGI.

VetteDrmr

Serious question: what makes you think any US venue can afford to host F1 if CotA can't?

froggy47

So far as building a new F1 track.

Here you have a developer who cut a deal with Bernie & his state. He is now gonna get squeezed by both.

Who would be dumb enough to think they will pull it off better in some other state at some other venue?

OTOH street races probably still have a chance, I think viewers both on site and TV enjoy street tracks.

Long Beach GP is a very fun event to attend. Well run IMO, decent access by car, more like that could work.

Zoxxo

First, remember that Chris Pook kicked Bernie and F1 out of Long Beach in 1983 because Bernie was too expensive even then!

Second, the fact that a race might be able to be run on a given track is far down the list of gotcha issues that would prevent it. With Bernie, the first item on the list is your bank account and that of any/all investors. For the FIA, the safety standards required for an F1 track today are miles beyond what Long Beach or Laguna Seca or Sonoma or *any other U.S. road course* provides and, since road racing is a mere blip on the auto racing scene in this country, there is no way to justify any of those tracks spending the money required to bring the track up to FIA spec.

What passed as a safe track for F1 back in the early 1980s would have zero chance of passing muster today. That means you can't just switch transporters and PA announcers. Mucho cash would need to be spent no matter where you tried to make it happen. It's almost like Bernie insists upon a "spending trial by fire" as the initiation into the "burned-by-Bernie" club. As I said before, the fact that he can't just snuggle up to some despot and extract $35 million per year for the next 10 years (with a 10% growth rate to boot) means that the U.S. is anything but fertile ground for his act.

Besides, Long Beach has a contract with IndyCar through 2018 and (again) there's no way that the Long Beach city council would agree to Bernie's asking price (at all); even more so when they already have a successful event with IndyCar.

I think I posted this link a while back but here it is again - a great explanation of Laguna Seca's history and situation and why you will *never* see F1 there (in addition to the already stated reasons that apply to all U.S. tracks.)

http://www.racer.com/more/viewpoints...=1&limitstart=

Z//

Suns_PSD

It seems that TX made some promises to provide funding and they might be going back on their end of the bargain. But I'm sure it's based on your perspective.

The selfish me just wants whatever happens to result in affordable track days there. It's a bummer that I have this world class facility 25 minutes from my home and they charge $540 per day for 4 sessions. That's just too steep for me.

fatbillybob

I do not know F1 economics so can't comment. All I can say about CoTA is that I have only raced on a dozen different tracks. CoTA is an outlier compared to others. CoTA mgmt treated us like unwashed guests forcing us to put plastic down before we sat on the sofa. They had weird car extrication policies and other weirdness not seen at other tracks. Then you watch the same weirdness during pro races and when people say CoTA is going bankrupt you just sort of say, "yeah...I can see why." It takes more than a very cool Tilke F1 track to make racers want to go there.

froggy47

Good background.

BTW I did not mean to say the F1 could go back to LB, just that the LBGP is (now) a successful major race event.



Any buzz on that New Jersey street race?

Zoxxo

I know. I just find all of this simplistic "there's pavement so they could have an F1 race" stuff a tad simplistic (to put it mildly.)

Not sure what the "now" references. Long Beach was a success from day one and that really hasn't changed much over the years. There have been some years when attendance was less than they would have liked but even then nothing tragic. Note that the Long Beach city council is wise enough to recognize that they have a good thing and they do whatever they can to accommodate the race and renew the contract time after time. Unlike the Texas morons...

When Long Beach started up I was living just down the road in Newport Beach so I attended every one of the F1 races. It was close enough that I could go all three days and sleep in my own bed each night (which, I'm sure, is one of the reasons for its success - the out-of-pocket cost to attend the thing is quite low compared to Bernie's circuses.) A powerful memory still is walking from the car (parked on city streets(!)) to the track as first practice was beginning and the *sound* the cars made (the days of Ferrari boxer 12 motors) was just amazing.

When LB switched from F1 I lost interest for a while but eventually became a big CART fan and attended a lot of those, too.

Only the occasional tongue spasm from Bernie when someone mentions F1 in America. I'm sure all this COTA stuff will help the project along.[/SARC]

Z//

VetteDrmr

Texas gov't. agreed to pony up $25M per event, depending on the amount of money the event brought to the area. Promoters were, well, promoting, and came up with amazing numbers. Shocker, now that those amazing numbers aren't being seen, Texas is reducing the amount the state is paying.

I was down there when CotA was being built and had a chance to go to the first DE type events. The cost was insane, and the stories I heard back were just what FBB described. I'm thinking that after F1 disappears (I gave them 5 years back at the start, think I was optimistic) it'll become more like TWS. I'd love to see Indycar (maybe!) and NASCAR (hey, I can dream!) run there.

Have a good one,
Mike