C5 ZO6: best track car?!
12-23-2015, 11:43 AM
#21
I will eventually own a c5z dual duty car... currently I run intermediate with bmccca, pac ext in my trusty 170,000 mile 2006 330i, which has been made into a very good reliable (and fun!) track car. At 260hp in a 3400 lb package its fast enough to be fun, but has still be a great tool in learning the basics in maintaining momentum ... its like some place between a miata and a corvette.
I wish more guys in the novice zone would be willing to learn in something around 200-250 ho in a 3000-3300 pound car. MOST (not all) novice guys showing up in Vettes car be a little scary and tend to have that 'race' mentality. Its not a race. The only thing you win is your skin and car looking the same as when you got there. It's a school, with so many great instructors there to help participants learn some of the requirements of car control, all while having some fun.
That said, theres guys like my dad who pick up a late model Vette at 3300 lbs, a nice manual gear box, more power than just about any muscle car from when he was a kid, and really shityy brakes from the factory (c6 ls3 z51). Fortunately he recognized that taking my track rat out for the first few times to learn some of the basics was the way to go- he still had the time of his life
So take it slow guys, lots of people to learn from and I promise you will impress no one.
As I develop my craft, the need for more power will hit and I will surely find myself with either a c5z, an e46 or e90 M3, or Porsche Cayman S.
I wish more guys in the novice zone would be willing to learn in something around 200-250 ho in a 3000-3300 pound car. MOST (not all) novice guys showing up in Vettes car be a little scary and tend to have that 'race' mentality. Its not a race. The only thing you win is your skin and car looking the same as when you got there. It's a school, with so many great instructors there to help participants learn some of the requirements of car control, all while having some fun.
That said, theres guys like my dad who pick up a late model Vette at 3300 lbs, a nice manual gear box, more power than just about any muscle car from when he was a kid, and really shityy brakes from the factory (c6 ls3 z51). Fortunately he recognized that taking my track rat out for the first few times to learn some of the basics was the way to go- he still had the time of his life
So take it slow guys, lots of people to learn from and I promise you will impress no one.
As I develop my craft, the need for more power will hit and I will surely find myself with either a c5z, an e46 or e90 M3, or Porsche Cayman S.
I'm currently shopping for an S2000 as a dedicated track car. Those are durable, and pricing is great. Driven right, they are damn quick around a technical track.
12-23-2015, 09:27 PM
#22
The C5 Z06 is amazing on the track But, the limits are so high that it is not an easy car to master with nannys off. I intend to stick with it because the C6 Z is still expensive, and they seem to break more. Besides, it's a blast, and a good running C5Z has surprised many a fancy high buck car with more power.
12-24-2015, 12:16 AM
#23
Pro
Thread Starter
The C5 Z06 is amazing on the track But, the limits are so high that it is not an easy car to master with nannys off. I intend to stick with it because the C6 Z is still expensive, and they seem to break more. Besides, it's a blast, and a good running C5Z has surprised many a fancy high buck car with more power.
I drive my car at an honest 9.5-10/10th, and I have never spun it. I'm a competent driver, but not a natural talent, and I am amazed at how this car manages to be both a true driver's car with lovely, precise handling, and yet is also so user friendly.
By the way, the skid control on the C5 is a joke. I'm sure the active handling on a new ZO6 is great, but on this 15+ y/o car it is way too intrusive.
12-24-2015, 12:18 AM
#24
Pro
Thread Starter
"I'm currently shopping for an S2000 as a dedicated track car. Those are durable, and pricing is great. Driven right, they are damn quick around a technical track.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I have great respect for the S2000. They are wicked fast on even a supposed horsepower track like Willow Springs. A stock S2000 and a stock ZO6 are probably about equally matched at Willow.
Yeah, I have great respect for the S2000. They are wicked fast on even a supposed horsepower track like Willow Springs. A stock S2000 and a stock ZO6 are probably about equally matched at Willow.
12-24-2015, 08:14 AM
#25
Pro
Personally I have seen a number of S2000s spin and the description of trailing throttle oversteer doesn't sound like a lot of fun to me.
I HAVE managed to spin my C5Z a number of times but usually with an over exuberant right foot on corner exit which is just stupid on my part but much safer than having trailing throttle oversteer on corner entry.
I think the only issue with a C5Z is that the car is likely too fast for a newbie. I think personally I would like a Mata for a season or two but would really like more power which then limits you to an older lighter wgt BMW as a good handling affordable track car.
I HAVE managed to spin my C5Z a number of times but usually with an over exuberant right foot on corner exit which is just stupid on my part but much safer than having trailing throttle oversteer on corner entry.
I think the only issue with a C5Z is that the car is likely too fast for a newbie. I think personally I would like a Mata for a season or two but would really like more power which then limits you to an older lighter wgt BMW as a good handling affordable track car.
12-24-2015, 11:13 AM
#26
Racer
I have dabbled in my fair share of car types/models in HPDE. To this date I have never driven a more fun car than a S2000. Hands down the best balance to learn in. The balance is as close as you will get to neutral with a street car. I learned really fast that with a neutral balance how much communication the gas pedal had on the balance in a loaded corner. First lap out on Sebring with the S2000 in T15 cold tires, I let up on the pedal slightly. I found myself looking toward the inside wall. I was able to correct, but damn that was great! The car was great at holding a line through a turn. I was quick enough in that car to keep up with, and hound a C6. It was awesome to really learn the deep braking points, and really push the corning speeds. There was no torque to save you from a poor entry, just had to nail it. I'm currently shopping for an S2000 as a dedicated track car. Those are durable, and pricing is great. Driven right, they are damn quick around a technical track.
I loved my s2000 but you had to wring its neck to turn fast lap times.
The Vette is more fun because of the torque.
Both cars have been reliable for me for the most part.
12-24-2015, 01:06 PM
#27
I do like torque and horsepower, so I'm right at home in the Z. However I still enjoyed the S2000 more. I'm just a tad to big to have one as a daily driver. I'm a much better fit in the Z, plus no doubt the Z will stomp the S on most tracks.
12-24-2015, 01:43 PM
#28
Racer
I just sold my S2000, no doubt it's a fun car, both on the street and on track. I didn't find it to be particularly fast, at least in stock form. I'm sure some modifications would wake it up.
I found if I was on track and the car count was low, it was great. If I attended a standard club day with a crowded track, not so much. For some perspective, Fastest Laps lists the stock S2000 (AP1) at 8:39 on the ring and a C5 Z06 at 7:56. That's a huge difference.
I found if I was on track and the car count was low, it was great. If I attended a standard club day with a crowded track, not so much. For some perspective, Fastest Laps lists the stock S2000 (AP1) at 8:39 on the ring and a C5 Z06 at 7:56. That's a huge difference.
12-24-2015, 01:50 PM
#29
Safety Car
I currently only own C4 and C6 Z06 Corvettes but the best handling car I have ever owned was my stock C5Z06. It was so capable it was hard to find the limits as they were so high and the car so balanced as you approached them. I actually found you had to be willing to manhandle the car a bit to see where the limits were. Enjoy it.
12-25-2015, 04:58 PM
#30
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5 secs per minute lap difference is quite large. Although the high revving momentum characteristic of the S2000 can be fun, the faster lapping, well balanced C5Z provides thrills every track event/race. 
12-25-2015, 05:53 PM
#31
Burning Brakes
I wanted a sports car since I can remember so when the time came I bought a C5Z. The best way to use it as intended was to track it. After doing so I realized, as far as track racing goes, it's not the best car to start with. I get smacked by the above mentioned S2000s. This particular one smashed through the corners leaving my beginner a$$ behind.
I don't want to change though. I love the sound of the V8. I do have an '02 BMW 330ci that I've teased the idea of tracking but I have a Z06.... I'd much rather put my money that.
Like mentioned above, I'm sure the 330 is a great car to track with. They're cheap now and IMO it's the best car for the money. Instead of selling it for change I should keep it and make some fun out of it. It'd be closer to my current skill level. But...... Corvette.....
I don't want to change though. I love the sound of the V8. I do have an '02 BMW 330ci that I've teased the idea of tracking but I have a Z06.... I'd much rather put my money that.
Like mentioned above, I'm sure the 330 is a great car to track with. They're cheap now and IMO it's the best car for the money. Instead of selling it for change I should keep it and make some fun out of it. It'd be closer to my current skill level. But...... Corvette.....
Last edited by FruiTay; 12-25-2015 at 05:54 PM.
12-25-2015, 06:07 PM
#32
Well since some can't just let the lap times be what they may lol.
Feel free to look through the time attack results. The closest competition in unlimited rwd and street rwd is between Corvettes and S2000's. Depending on the track, S will beat even a C7 z51.
http://globaltimeattack.com/results-list/
Feel free to look through the time attack results. The closest competition in unlimited rwd and street rwd is between Corvettes and S2000's. Depending on the track, S will beat even a C7 z51.
http://globaltimeattack.com/results-list/
12-25-2015, 08:59 PM
#33
Melting Slicks
I will eventually own a c5z dual duty car... currently I run intermediate with bmccca, pac ext in my trusty 170,000 mile 2006 330i, which has been made into a very good reliable (and fun!) track car. At 260hp in a 3400 lb package its fast enough to be fun, but has still be a great tool in learning the basics in maintaining momentum ... its like some place between a miata and a corvette.
I wish more guys in the novice zone would be willing to learn in something around 200-250 ho in a 3000-3300 pound car. MOST (not all) novice guys showing up in Vettes car be a little scary and tend to have that 'race' mentality. Its not a race. The only thing you win is your skin and car looking the same as when you got there. It's a school, with so many great instructors there to help participants learn some of the requirements of car control, all while having some fun.
That said, theres guys like my dad who pick up a late model Vette at 3300 lbs, a nice manual gear box, more power than just about any muscle car from when he was a kid, and really shityy brakes from the factory (c6 ls3 z51). Fortunately he recognized that taking my track rat out for the first few times to learn some of the basics was the way to go- he still had the time of his life
So take it slow guys, lots of people to learn from and I promise you will impress no one.
As I develop my craft, the need for more power will hit and I will surely find myself with either a c5z, an e46 or e90 M3, or Porsche Cayman S.
I wish more guys in the novice zone would be willing to learn in something around 200-250 ho in a 3000-3300 pound car. MOST (not all) novice guys showing up in Vettes car be a little scary and tend to have that 'race' mentality. Its not a race. The only thing you win is your skin and car looking the same as when you got there. It's a school, with so many great instructors there to help participants learn some of the requirements of car control, all while having some fun.
That said, theres guys like my dad who pick up a late model Vette at 3300 lbs, a nice manual gear box, more power than just about any muscle car from when he was a kid, and really shityy brakes from the factory (c6 ls3 z51). Fortunately he recognized that taking my track rat out for the first few times to learn some of the basics was the way to go- he still had the time of his life
So take it slow guys, lots of people to learn from and I promise you will impress no one.
As I develop my craft, the need for more power will hit and I will surely find myself with either a c5z, an e46 or e90 M3, or Porsche Cayman S.
Track a 4th gen Fbody, you will have an understanding of what "shittee brakes" really are.
My C5 Z06 has outstanding brakes in comparison.
Last edited by FASTFATBOY; 12-25-2015 at 09:00 PM.
12-25-2015, 09:20 PM
#34
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If one wants a track car I would suggest attending any HPDE event and register to ride along with any number of vehicles and instructors. I really can't think of a better way to ascertain what vehicle one might desire. Check out Motorsportreg. 
12-25-2015, 09:34 PM
#35
Racer
But yeah 12" front brakes and hair trigger ABS ... but it helped me learn thats for sure.
In comparison my 2006 330i weighs about that same and came with 13" brakes all the way around. I upgraded to fronts off a 335i (13.7") but even with the originals and track pads I have never had to worry at the end of the back straight at the glen. The rear brakes on c5/c6 vettes look like they belong on a motorcycle.. With the massive speed that corvettes carry into corners it's just something that drivers have to manage thats all.
Corvette brakes are a problem I wish I had! (I'll get one someday
)
12-26-2015, 05:03 PM
#36
Safety Car
Particularly a 93-97 FBody. The addition of the 98+ brakes to the earlier Fourth Gen was a Huge improvement. How I started my HPDE days in a 93 I will never know except I guess I just didn't know any better. The addition of the later brakes made my CMC car pretty good after that change was made. The C5 brake upgrade was even better.
12-26-2015, 05:51 PM
#37
Melting Slicks
Particularly a 93-97 FBody. The addition of the 98+ brakes to the earlier Fourth Gen was a Huge improvement. How I started my HPDE days in a 93 I will never know except I guess I just didn't know any better. The addition of the later brakes made my CMC car pretty good after that change was made. The C5 brake upgrade was even better.
This will be a hard habit to break in the C5 as you can damn near go alot deeper and stab the brake pedal.
You try that in a 4th gen Fbody and your eyes would be blurry for a few hours. When it happens you have to let off the brakes to get it to clear up, then you loose a 100 feet of braking. It makes the upcoming corner very interesting to say the least.
I have a few vids with brake hop, it will scare the shee-ot out of you.
Last edited by FASTFATBOY; 12-26-2015 at 06:17 PM.
12-26-2015, 05:57 PM
#38
Le Mans Master
Well since some can't just let the lap times be what they may lol.
Feel free to look through the time attack results. The closest competition in unlimited rwd and street rwd is between Corvettes and S2000's. Depending on the track, S will beat even a C7 z51.
http://globaltimeattack.com/results-list/
Feel free to look through the time attack results. The closest competition in unlimited rwd and street rwd is between Corvettes and S2000's. Depending on the track, S will beat even a C7 z51.
http://globaltimeattack.com/results-list/
There might be some occasions where an S2000 beats a Corvette, but it is likely the driver and/or other mods on the S2000. The S2000 is a great car, but it will never turn the lap times of the Corvettes in stock for stock form.
12-26-2015, 06:40 PM
#39
Safety Car
Both have wheel hop problems, it would however teach you to be VERY smooth on brake application.
This will be a hard habit to break in the C5 as you can damn near go alot deeper and stab the brake pedal.
You try that in a 4th gen Fbody and your eyes would be blurry for a few hours. When it happens you have to let off the brakes to get it to clear up, then you loose a 100 feet of braking. It makes the upcoming corner very interesting to say the least.
I have a few vids with brake hop, it will scare the shee-ot out of you.
This will be a hard habit to break in the C5 as you can damn near go alot deeper and stab the brake pedal.
You try that in a 4th gen Fbody and your eyes would be blurry for a few hours. When it happens you have to let off the brakes to get it to clear up, then you loose a 100 feet of braking. It makes the upcoming corner very interesting to say the least.
I have a few vids with brake hop, it will scare the shee-ot out of you.
When I moved the 93 to CMC I ran hi temp race pads up front and normal street pads on the rear. Again rules kept me from using a stronger torque arm, but simply taking a bunch of rear brake out cured the wheel hop completely.
BTW, that wheel hop can be a good thing. Twice at Buttonwillow on the straight after the cotton corners down to the off ramp I went for 3rd from 2nd and got 1st!! Both times the rear end hopped so high off the ground I was able to get the clutch back in before I grenaded the motor.
Last edited by pkincy; 12-26-2015 at 06:43 PM.
12-26-2015, 07:08 PM
#40
Drifting
The C5 Z06 is amazing on the track But, the limits are so high that it is not an easy car to master with nannys off. I intend to stick with it because the C6 Z is still expensive, and they seem to break more. Besides, it's a blast, and a good running C5Z has surprised many a fancy high buck car with more power.
However, with a Sparco Evo 2 seat in and at the track the car just feels at home. I found the feedback to be great and quickly exceeded the nannies limits and still found it very predictable with them off.
The biggest thing is you need to learn to really control the throttle. I have many friends who track who have more of a on/off mentality, even at the advanced level. I roll out of the throttle or hold it lightly on many corners until I am exiting and apply it slightly more the more I come out of the corner.
Having instructed with Chin I found many Corvette drivers wait until they are completely straight before getting back on the throttle. This makes it difficult to learn the cars limits.