AC compressor and dry sump options
01-11-2016, 08:54 AM
#1
Racer
Thread Starter
AC compressor and dry sump options
I'm starting a new thread to pick up the notion of moving the AC compressor to the passenger head to allow 3 or 4 stage dry sump systems along with keeping the A/C.
I'll copy the relevant posts from its original thread and we can go from there.
I'll copy the relevant posts from its original thread and we can go from there.
01-11-2016, 08:57 AM
#2
Racer
Thread Starter
I recognize that most folks running multi-stage scavenge and external pressure (3 or 4 stage) dry sump setups couldn't care less about A/C... but I'm wondering if anybody has moved the A/C compressor up high on the passenger head? There are several kits available for that that look like it would package fine, but none use a variable displacement compressor like the factory LS3/7.
01-11-2016, 08:58 AM
#3
Racer
Thread Starter
From flash911(Ron in SoCal):
Hey JP, it's Ron in Socal! Dailey has a system that looks like it works with the Wegner accy drive and high mount AC compressor. I'm not sure what compressor they're using. Also might be worth a call to Daley (good dude) as he might have something not on his website.
See pics 5 & 6:
http://www.daileyengineering.com/ls_...side_mount.htm
Hey JP, it's Ron in Socal! Dailey has a system that looks like it works with the Wegner accy drive and high mount AC compressor. I'm not sure what compressor they're using. Also might be worth a call to Daley (good dude) as he might have something not on his website.
See pics 5 & 6:
http://www.daileyengineering.com/ls_...side_mount.htm
Last edited by parsonsj; 01-11-2016 at 09:00 AM.
01-11-2016, 09:04 AM
#4
Racer
Thread Starter
This from Johnny:
Originally Posted by Johnny C
Aivid makes a head mounted pump if you wanted to keep the factory ac and use the stock oil pump. or holley makes a AC bracket to move the AC compressor to the top of the motor. that way you can use an external oil pump
i call my car a hoon car. it still has street tags, and it's getting a full cage. i race it with NASA and USCA events. i very much don't want to take it off the street as i like to test it and drive to events if i can. I did a bunch of research into dry sups over the last 6 months. I've talked with avaid, ARE, Dailey, i walked the pits and have talked to many teams about what they are running/results.
it boils down to what RPM your running the motor at. if your going to keep your motor under 6000 rpm then it's OK to use the internal pump with two or three scavenge lines. if your going over that rpm limit then you really should go with a external pump. the stock pumps are not happy over 6000rpm and drop in pressure. over 6000rpm is when you get the benefit from the external pump. the Daley systems are super bitching, looks like the least amount of hassle. because i do so many events a year (15-20) i cap the rpm's at 6000 for extended engine life. so i will be doing the "stage 1" two scavenge lines and using the internal pump with a ARE pan.
i call my car a hoon car. it still has street tags, and it's getting a full cage. i race it with NASA and USCA events. i very much don't want to take it off the street as i like to test it and drive to events if i can. I did a bunch of research into dry sups over the last 6 months. I've talked with avaid, ARE, Dailey, i walked the pits and have talked to many teams about what they are running/results.
it boils down to what RPM your running the motor at. if your going to keep your motor under 6000 rpm then it's OK to use the internal pump with two or three scavenge lines. if your going over that rpm limit then you really should go with a external pump. the stock pumps are not happy over 6000rpm and drop in pressure. over 6000rpm is when you get the benefit from the external pump. the Daley systems are super bitching, looks like the least amount of hassle. because i do so many events a year (15-20) i cap the rpm's at 6000 for extended engine life. so i will be doing the "stage 1" two scavenge lines and using the internal pump with a ARE pan.
01-11-2016, 09:05 AM
#5
Racer
Thread Starter
From 93 Polo:
Originally Posted by 93Polo
John, I think you should make a bracket. I would be very interested in one for a C5 which I would think would work on the C6 as well.
01-11-2016, 09:11 AM
#6
Racer
Thread Starter
After discussion with the main tech guy at Vintage Air, I've learned that using a fixed displacement compressor won't work with the C5 or C6. Fixed displacement compressors require a sensor to monitor evaporator core temperature to prevent freezing (it's what would cycle the compressor off). Variable displacement compressors don't need that sensor since the compressor itself manages low side pressure to prevent freezing of the evaporator.
IOW, a fixed displacement compressor in a C5/C6 would work to create cold air, but wouldn't know when to cycle off to prevent the evaporator core from becoming a block of ice. The search for a suitable correctly sized variable displacement compressor continues...
IOW, a fixed displacement compressor in a C5/C6 would work to create cold air, but wouldn't know when to cycle off to prevent the evaporator core from becoming a block of ice. The search for a suitable correctly sized variable displacement compressor continues...
01-12-2016, 11:25 AM
#7
Melting Slicks
Dailey has 2 styles. Be forewarned, these aren't cheap.
http://www.daileyengineering.com/LS7...te_with_AC.htm
http://www.daileyengineering.com/ls_...side_mount.htm
I'm not sure if the left side pump mounting will work due to steering shaft interference. Best to call and talk to Bill.
http://www.daileyengineering.com/LS7...te_with_AC.htm
http://www.daileyengineering.com/ls_...side_mount.htm
I'm not sure if the left side pump mounting will work due to steering shaft interference. Best to call and talk to Bill.
Last edited by 3X2; 01-12-2016 at 11:29 AM.
01-12-2016, 11:52 AM
#8
Racer
Thread Starter
Yeah, the driver's side looks intriguing but seems like it wouldn't clear the steering column.
The 5 stage on the passenger side head looks promising, but I'd be worried about reliable oil supply to the pressure stage when the oil has to go uphill to get there. Perhaps that's ok? Then there's the difficulty of getting 4 AN10 oil supply hoses from the pan up to the pump.
Still working on moving the AC to that passenger head location -- a lower dry sump pump just seems like a better package: easier scavenge plumbing, plus a gravity fed pressure stage.
The 5 stage on the passenger side head looks promising, but I'd be worried about reliable oil supply to the pressure stage when the oil has to go uphill to get there. Perhaps that's ok? Then there's the difficulty of getting 4 AN10 oil supply hoses from the pan up to the pump.
Still working on moving the AC to that passenger head location -- a lower dry sump pump just seems like a better package: easier scavenge plumbing, plus a gravity fed pressure stage.
01-14-2016, 05:48 PM
#9
Racer
Thread Starter
So this compressor will work (according to the engineer at Vintage Air). It's not ideal.. the mounting ears are on the wrong side. But the pulley ribs, electrical connection, size, and displacement will do fine.
I'm trying to con a buddy with CNC machines into helping me with a mounting solution.
The compressor itself is a Sanden SD7V16, used originally by VW in their 1.8 and 2.0L Jettas.
I'm trying to con a buddy with CNC machines into helping me with a mounting solution.
The compressor itself is a Sanden SD7V16, used originally by VW in their 1.8 and 2.0L Jettas.
Last edited by parsonsj; 01-14-2016 at 05:52 PM.
01-14-2016, 10:45 PM
#10
Good info on the compressor. I was actually going to move my a/c several years back for a dry sump as I ended up with a dailey 3 stage system, but never got around to it. Luckily I didn't as I had no idea about the variable displacement compressor.
In my case I planned on using the kwik performance brackets. They don't list a set for use specifically with the SD7V16 compressor, but so long as it is the same mounting as the SD7H15 or SD7B10 it should work.
In my case I planned on using the kwik performance brackets. They don't list a set for use specifically with the SD7V16 compressor, but so long as it is the same mounting as the SD7H15 or SD7B10 it should work.
Last edited by trackboss; 01-14-2016 at 10:49 PM.
01-21-2016, 04:57 PM
#11
8th Gear
Member Since: May 2015
Location: Kingwood TX
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I am in the same boat. Rebuilding an ST2 car, and will primarily be using it for track days. Already have a external dry sump on pass side, and while I am rebuilding the car, and have full AC system sitting around and would love to add AC. Sitting on Grid in TX gets hot!
I presume from all this that no one makes a bracket to move the stock compressor up on pass side?
I presume from all this that no one makes a bracket to move the stock compressor up on pass side?
01-21-2016, 05:52 PM
#12
Racer
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by AC
I presume from all this that no one makes a bracket to move the stock compressor up on pass side?
Last edited by parsonsj; 01-21-2016 at 05:53 PM.
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shipahoy (05-14-2021)
09-04-2018, 11:01 AM
#16
Team Owner
I would be curious if the Sanden Parsons picked up would fit on a Standard 508 bracket which is produced for the Corvette belt spacing by Holley, Kwik performance and likely others. If the mounting ears are the same amount apart the brackets from the Kwik could be used and the spacers between the brackets could be changed to adjust spacing assuming it clears the coolant reservoir and frame rail. The drain plug location may force you to use the Holey style bracket. I believe Canton makes a smaller reservoir.
http://www.kwikperf.com/lsx_ac.html
https://www.holley.com/products/accessories/drive_brackets/brackets_only/parts/20-134
Last edited by 93Polo; 09-04-2018 at 12:00 PM.
09-06-2018, 09:13 AM
#18
Team Owner
05-13-2021, 05:05 PM
#20
Supporting Vendor
Bringing this back up, we will have a kit shortly for Dailey (or any drysump) and AC.
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"Keeping You on Track!"
http://www.gspeed.com
877-512-5180
Instagram_Facebook_YouTube
GSpeed C7Z Cooling Development
2014 NASA Texas TT1 Champion
2015 NASA Texas ST1 Champion
2018 NASA TTU & TT3 National Champions
2019 NASA ST2 National Champion
2019 NASA Texas TT2 Champion
2020 SCCA Majors COTA GT2 pole sitter
2020 SCCA Trans Am Road Atlanta SGT Winner
2022 NASA National Champion ST2
2023 NASA National Champion ST2
2023 NASA National Champion TT2