nskyline34

Noobie to cars here (raced shifter karts) and I’m working on progressing things along here – I’m going back to ‘work’ to get better as I did with karts.

I know “don’t focus on speed, focus on smooth” – to keep myself relaxed I repeat “Slow is smooth and smooth is fast” but I’m looking for numbers to help me determine where I’m really leaving time on the table.

Car has more than enough power to get me into worlds of troubles, so I don’t lean on it because it could be a crutch.

Car: 2003 C5 Z06 (full street car with FX1’s and 6 pts)
Go: 480+whp
Whoa: XP8 pads, LG/DRM ducts, Motul Fluid, OE rotors/calipers
Tires: Nitto NT01s

I’ve got an AiM Solo in the mail to me for helping really break things down about where I’m fast and where I’m not – but I need reference data to compare too.

Just a few more data points to help know WHERE and by HOW MUCH I’m leaving time on the table.

Can people just post any data they know that might be able to help?

Like:

Lap times (I'm assuming most of you are a little faster than my at 1:3X seconds...
Turn 1 speed (if you have the stones to look)
Turn 2 turn-in speed
Turn 3a before brakes
Turn 5a turn in
Etc etc

Just need to have stuff to compare to in order to be consistent. If I’m 5% off in 1 area and 30% off in another area, then I know where I really need to focus. Not trying to pushing things too hard and go as fast as someone, just trying to help even out my segments if that makes sense.

Or if someone has a solo file they can email me too that would be great help also. But raw data is worthless without a reference point - which I'm hoping you can help with.

Thanks!

mxk

Are you asking about HDPE times or race times? If its HDPE, who do you go out with? Different organizations attract different cars and drivers. Hooked On Driving costs a little more than many organizations, but they also tend to attract a bit more expensive set of cars, or at least that's my experience with the SF Bay Area. You should find similar cars or at least similar performing cars (Porsches, etc) at the down time between sessions and make friends with their drivers.

nskyline34

Thanks for chiming in - and for right now, I would be happy with either HPDE or race. Like I said I don't want to compare exact mph's but rather I want to scale mine to make sure I'm consistently fast through every section.

As far as comparing cars - I have become friends with the same people 911 on slicks and another C5Z with big brakes and sway bars - both similar cars, the Porche is hard as hell to hang with once those tires come up to temps. I have to get really brave under braking to stay with him.

Just wanting to make sure that I'm consistent with the pace I'm doing before I step it up another level. No sense in progressing when the foundation isn't solid.

C5 Hardtop

To give you a speed reference on T1, back in 1999 my C5 Hardtop was taking it a 136 MPH lap after lap.

There wasn't anything left on the table with that car at that corner because as soon as the car finished exiting T1, I needed to brake hard and long to avoid plowing into T2.

At your turn-in point input all your steering input in one smooth movement, then hold the wheel until its time to unwind. The apex wasn't obvious back in the day because the white concrete divider (drag strip wall) was blocking the apex view before the turn-in. It took some practice. The C5 sets down and holds so beautifully and effortlessly at that speed in that corner with said turn-in technique.

Given racing brakes you could take T1 much faster than 136 MPH, guessing at least 150 MPH. It is a high speed corner.

nskyline34

Thank you! I stay about 125-135 through T1, just letting the car breathe and get a little heat out of it. Weird corner, but the car feels moderately planted.

What about into 3a down the hill - any idea how fast before you hit the brakes?

C5 Hardtop

For a break point on 3a, start braking right after its too late

No, really I don't recall what speed I was at that point. The focus was on the faster corners or corners leading to a big straight.

Here is an old video of my C5 Hardtop in the Seattle International Raceway days. I was giving it a too much gas too early. The car has street tires and street brakes (besides fluid). The vid could be another speed and location reference/comparison.

mikeCsix

I might be able to help a little, I like PR, been out there several times.

Got to be careful with T1, it's slightly off camber, so I'm at neutral throttle and have been through there at 135, but most of the time at 125. I'm still learning how fast I can go through, I'm certain I'm leaving some speed on the table.

T2, I'm told 71mph, I've been through at 65. What gets me is how quickly speed falls off quickly. Backing up a bit, I'm a late breaker and have caught many cars entering T2.

T3A, I'm at 100 plus or minus 3mph. Must have good brakes! In fact I concentrate too hard with braking for 3a I haven't looked for entrance speed, once around I'm on the gas for 3b. T4 is relatively fast, getting set up for the entrance to 5a is a little tricky for me, I'm typically not far enough to the left setting up for 5a. Namely, I've seen some big accidents through this part of the course. Some have told me they are wot, I'm no where near it. If I hit the berm at 5a, I feel the effects of bump steer. By the time I wind through 6, I'm around 65 to 70, and nearly wot through 7, Hard brake into 8, not sure of the speed especially if congested for this left hand sweeper, for me, 8 is a third gear turn at about 3500 rpms, then 9 is wot, and on down the straight.

HTH.

nskyline34

Ok this was exactly what I was liking for - what kinda lap time is this on average?

Also, into 3a, what cone/marker are you braking at?

And I agree, T4 - T6 is not exactly confidence inspiring. Lots of focus or you're in the trees...

freaknbigpanda

In my C6 with headers and a tune (370whp) I was taking T1 around 140 followed by really heavy braking into t2, I remember T2 was around 65? I actually video taped my lap, if you can critique my line that would be amazing:


Best lap time was ~1:38

mikeCsix

I haven't timed my laps, so can't respond to the question.

3a comes up really quick. I'm into the brakes at the first cone or between the first and second.

The couple of accidents I've seen, around 5a, one car flipped, another went into the tire wall at 5b. Neither were pretty.

mikeCsix

My laps and speeds were on street tires, Goodyear or Michelin.

mikeCsix

Ben,

From the camera angles, you looked early on 3a and missed 3b, otherwise the rest of your lines looked good.

I sure don't like the cones in the middle of the entrance to turns 2 and 8, on 8, I like to be a little more inside than on the outside but that cone won't let you. The instructors though will tell you to be on the outside like you were.

I couldn't tell, but the entrance to 9, you might want to be a little more to the left. Where were you in relation to the number 7 at the entrance to 9? I like to straighten out 9 enough to where I'm not close to the edge of the track at track-out and the bumps on that side of the track to keep the suspension from being upset too much. I had DRM Bilstein's on last year and it got quite rough, too rough to put down all the power available. I had GS shocks the year before and they actually felt better through there but not as good at other sections of the track. Next time out I'll have JOC shocks and stabilizers so it will be another learning experience for me.


Who put the event together?

nskyline34

Ben - biggest thing I saw that was consistent was you weren't using all of the track, seemed a little timid at coming down to apex and letting the car 'drift' out to the tracks edge.

Also going through 9 I agree, car can get pretty upset through the bumps I keep accelerating, to keep the *** planted through it and make sure I'm pretty straight going through it, then after the suspension settles, get to track mid/right.


General everyone - coming into T3a, how fast are people going before breaking, and where do you brake at? Also through T4 and into T5a, how fast are people going? Same with T7 apex, how fast?

Losing the car anywhere in that bottom stretch from 3b through 7 will be a bad day... I 'push' myself very very slowly through there, increasing speed 1mph at a time each session. Otherwise plus or minus 5mph anywhere else on the track and there is enough real estate to sort it out.

nskyline34

3a - what speed are you braking at between cones 1 and 2?

C5 Hardtop

Exciting to see the video begin where it did and feeling fast from the get-go. Then heading into and through T1 was fun to watch. I think you can have more exit speed from T2 by hitting the T2 apex where the cone was. You should be 1" off that cone.
When you start unwinding the wheel, you bought yourself more track to put power down coming out of it. Then you get more speed top speed between T2 and T3a. Thats a nice little git-up-n'go section to drive through.

You can carry way more speed between 3b and 5a. That is a higher speed section of the track. But, and this is a big point.., keep the same respect you have for 5a. Nobody is going to get much done trying to go fast into it. Its a corner to respect in that it can become dangerous when we get it wrong. I heard there were railroad tracks down at the bottom of the hill.

I think track management officials adding T10 was a huge let-down. Back in the day, you could roll on full throttle from T9 through that whole drag strip and have plenty of time to get your top speed and then concentrate on the correct maintenance throttle and track position right before taking the big man T1. That turn in is where the men are separated from the boys.

If you like the high speed turns like that with your big horse-power car, you have to learn to lap at ThunderHill. But the danger is after doing T-Hill and don't take this lightly, your local track isn't as good anymore and you'll have to start driving hundreds of miles to get the same big long lasting adrenaline rush.

nskyline34

Bringing this back.

Have an AiM Solo to data log and got in a few before the end of the last season. I'm wondering if anyone has any data they can send me so I can compare mine with to help me learn? My goal for this year is to break into the 1:35's. Let me know. Race Analyzer 2 IIRC is the software I have for analyzing. Just want to keep learning.

Thanks!

63Corvette

I would NOTE that on the back "Straight", the TREES at turns 4, 5A/B and 6 come to the edge of the track with NO protection, so I don't race there, but you should consider what the consequences of a high speed accident there would mean.

nskyline34

I appreciate your concerns, and I agree with you, but that is the slowest part of the track (less than 70) and while it would definitely leave a solid scratch (more likely a totaled car) I just choose to keep it somewhat conservative back there. 5a/b and 6 is not about being as fast as possible, but smooth and NOT upsetting the car. I'm willing to bump up my corner entry/turn in 1-2mph every 10 laps, except down there I am willing to do about 2-3mph every 150 -200 laps (so about 1x a day). Like I said, just need to be conservative. Appreciate your concerns though. 6pts and a roll bar will help, after this season I'll cage it or buy a dedicated car.

rule #1: never play with something you can't afford to throw away...

good adivice and reminder though!

freaknbigpanda

I was hitting 1:34 in a completely stock c6 z06 with the OEM Goodyear runflats, 1:35s should be achievable considering your car is modded pretty heavily. If I go flat out on the straight I'm hitting 160mph before breaking into turn 2.

nskyline34

thank you for the hint/tip. Currently only running 140 down the straight and I don't lean on the car hard at all. Short shift st 5000-5500. Just want to learn to be smooth and NOT rely on HP. That is just the goal for this year, then make the switch to an open wheel car.