jv8

I recently picked up an all-stock 2002 Z06 to use as a dedicated track car. I will start with HPDE's and schools. No daily driving. The point is have fun and learn... no need to be competitive.

The car needs front brakes (incl calipers) and tires anyway so I'm wide open on setup.

I've read tons of threads on track setup but I'm not sure what's best for a beginner.

I don't necessarily want to run a stock front setup because it seems pointless to buy stock calipers/rotors and 17" tires if I'm going to quickly pull them to put on 18" wheels and bigger brakes.

I could run square 18x10.5 all around but then would I be adding too much front grip for a beginner? I've heard it's better to start with understeer.

It's a track-only car so technically I could run Hoosiers but it seems like starting with street tires would make more sense for learning to manage traction.

Any advise on where to start? Thanks!

jaa1992

go square, use a high tread wear street tire.
Just go with rebuilt stock calipers and stock replacement rotors.
Shoot the Mafia ran those brake calipers forever and set lots of track records in the SE with just brake pads. Save the upgrade for next year or the year after.
As far as pads go pick your favorite brand (Hawk, carbotech, raybestos, whatever) and use the first level race pads, bed them in and go learn.
Read the "what I learned" sticky at least twice and make your plans. Your going to want a fixed seat and rollbar/cage soon. 150+ can kill ya quick.

jv8

Thanks for the advice. I definitely plan on safety first!

Regarding stock rotors... how often do they need to be changed? Time is a big deal for me. I was looking at a Wilwood 14" setup not so much for performance but just to reduce the garage time.

c4cruiser

Do a complete flush and fill of the fluids. Cooling system flush and make sure that the A/C condenser (assuming you wil keep the A/C for now) and radiator are free of debris. Flush and refill clutch fluid and inspect the hydraulic line. Inspect all of the bushings to make sure they are not cracked/dry-rotted.

I would agree with replacing the calipers with stock ones. The only real difference between the stock C5 and Z06 calipers is that the Z06 calipers are red. Stock rotors will work for now; they are cheap to replace and for your first year or two, stock rotors will do the job. Get some good performance pads, race-level pads can cone later. Do a complete brake fluid flush and refill with a good DOT4 fluid. Motul 600 will work and is widely available. ATE TYP200 is another DOT4 fluid that will work for the first year. Rotors are more of a maintenance item. Doesn't take a whole lot of time to replace rotors.

Get some Speed Bleeders for the calipers. Those make brake bleeding a one-person job and you will wind up bleeding the brakes for each event. Replace the flexible brake lines with stainless lines from Goodridge or Earl's.

The stock wheels and tire sizes will work for you while learning. A set of Hoosier R7's will be hugely expensive and may not last more than a coupe seasons. There are a number of decent tires in stock Z06 sizes that will work as you learn. Look at the VetteBrakes website to see what they recommend for an alignment for track use.

If you haven't already, buy a good quality helmet. A full-face helmet will help keep your face protected from small debris and marbles that can get tossed up by cars in front of you. Snell SA2015 helmets are available from Bell, Simpson, G-Force, Pyrotech, and others. Don't scrimp here; expect to pay a good $400 or more for a helmet.

Bill Dearborn

There are several things I would recommend based on my experience of running a C5 and C5Z for a period of 12 years. They relate to reliability, braking and safety/restraints.

From a reliability standpoint as you get faster in the car you will find the oil and coolant temps get hot fast. The solution to that issue is a larger radiator and an engine oil cooler. I went with a Ron Davis Racing Radiator with a built in EOC. I had that in my 97 and 03Z from 2000 through 2009 when I moved to a C6Z. It worked great. When I first purchased the 03 I saw a 319 degree oil temp at the Glen on a 90+ degree day. After I installed the radiator out of the 97 I never saw an oil temp over 260.

Second thing to think about are the brakes. You can get by with the stock C5 brakes. I did for 8 years. However, it is a pain dealing with them. The stock brakes tend to develop a long pedal after a few sessions due to brake pad taper. As a beginner this probably won't bother you much, however, over time you will find out it reduces brake pad life and can get to the point that you can't heel and toe due to the brake pedal dropping well below the gas pedal. This isn't a brake fluid issue it is a pad taper issue, when I encountered it on my 97 the car only had 2700 miles on it and I noticed the problem on the second session of the day. A friend helped me bleed the brakes several times during the day but I couldn't get the pedal travel to come back to the way it was when I got to the track. Two days later the dealer replaced the front brake pads under warranty since they were badly tapered. One way to deal with the long pedal travel is to swap the pads from one side of the car to the other to counteract the taper, I started doing this at the end of each track day. Another way to fight it is to make sure you softly engage the brake so the pads come into contact with the rotor and then push hard. This isn't a slow motion but it means you don't just hammer the brake pedal. Not sure why but that seems to reduce the progression of the taper. Another thing that can be done is to start pulsing the brake pedal softly as you approach a braking zone. You still keep your foot to the floor on the throttle but you pulse the brake so the pads get back to a point where they don't have to travel so far to engage the rotor. This works quite well in getting you through a long session with tapered pads.

Going to any fixed caliper aftermarket brake system will resolve the long pedal caused by pad tapering. However, that doesn't mean that pad tapering disappears. I resolved my problem by going with the LG G Stop kit which gave me thicker brake pads, a fixed Wilwood wide SL6 caliper and let me use stock brake rotors. It all fit under the stock C5Z 17x9.5 front wheel. I ran that system on my C5Z until I sold it 4 years later.

The biggest issue with that setup was the stock rotor size. No matter which rotor I used I would only get 3 days of use before the rotors cracked (not heat checked, cracked). Needless to say I went through a lot of rotors. Luckily, at the time the NAPA rotors were only $25 each. That was before they moved production to China and the price doubled. GM stock rotors, GM Thick Cheek Rotors (a special rotor for racers), NAPA all went 3 days no exception. I eventually threw all of my abused rotors in the truck (575 pounds worth) and got $75 for them at the scrap yard.

Spend some time using the stock brakes for the first year and then think about moving to something a little easier to live with. If the car you purchased wasn't tracked regularly you can just rebuild the stock calipers, put some new cheap rotors on and go with some low level street/autocross/track pads such as the HP Plus. However, as you progress in picking up speed you will find the HP Plus will start to fall short due to their temperature limitations.

Next make sure you get some cooling air into the brakes. The stock method leaves something to be desired so the DRM brake duct extensions work nicely with a set of LG spindle ducts.

Once you get to a where you understand the stock system limitations and maintenance issues then plan what you want to do for a brake system upgrade.

The next thing you need to look at is holding yourself in the car. The stock C5 seat provides no lateral support. Adding a 4 point harness to it does no good as you will still be moving around.

To start the stock 3 point belts when used in Cinch mode will hold you in place just as well and if applied correctly better than a race harness. Cinch mode locks the lap and shoulder belts so if you run the seat back all the way, put the belt into cinch mode by pulling it all the way out till it stops then you can fasten the belt, use your hands to push the belt into the take up reels and get it as tight as possible. Then run the seat forward until it feels like the lap belt is going to cut you in two. Your butt will be pushed down in the seat so it will not slide sideways, as soon as the car makes a quick forward motion the shoulder belt will latch and if you did it all correctly you will feel like you can't breathe because the belt is compressing your chest slightly. Then you are ready to go on track.

However, due to the limitations of the seat your upper body will move back and forth across the seat and your legs will move back and forth in the lower cockpit. Basically, you will be pivoting around the lap belt. I struggled with that for quite a few years until I finally went with a race seat that held me in place. Remember the seat holds you in the car, while the belts hold you in the seat. When you decide to make the transition to a better seat remember you will also have to do that for both sides so an instructor or passenger has equal seat/restraints as you do.

Bill

63Corvette

Do what Bill suggests

STANG KILLA SS

#1 completely flush brake fluid with Motul 600 (dot 4) or equivilent. dont and youll boil the fluid and have to sit out like i did. luckily it didnt cost me my car.

definatly go 18s up front in prep for big brakes and lots of tire options.

there are some not too expensive 14" setups out there. even oem. and keep them cool with some ducting.

Ludeaem

Bill, I think you should do a 'this is what I learned tracking my corvette's' sticky thread. Yes, i know there is already a thread like that. Always enjoy reading your unbiased/real world thoughts.

FASTFATBOY

For the beginner..........

Change every fluid in the car:

Synthetic in the trans, diff and power steering.

Good brake fluid, ATE, Motul

Stainless brake lines

Pull the radiator and clean the outer fins, blow out the condenser

Street/track alignment -1.8 front, -1.0 rear.. zero toe front, slight toe in on rear

Put some cheap tires on the stock wheels like the Bridgestone RE 760, burn up a couple of sets of these, maybe even 3 sets. In the mean time buy some rears and start collecting them for a square setup. Buy one more stock set of wheels and put some cheap street tires on the four 17's for rain days.

Put some good pads on the car like a Ferodo DS 2500, Hawk DTC 30, Raybestos ST43 or the like. With some Centric high carbon stock replacement rotors. The stock brakes on these cars are pretty darn good.

Bite the bullet and put seats, harness bar and belts in the car now...get it over with.

Pull the engine covers off, they hold heat on the engine.

Pull and clean the Mass Air Flow sensor, a dirty MAF will make the car run lean and hotter.

Go have fun, the car is very capable in this state.

Dan H.

Bill and fastfatboy covered it. Do these things and get some seat time. I just installed the oil cooler on my car, probably should have done it earlier, it won't take you long to cook oil. Mobil 1 15w-50 once you start to see high oil temps

apex26

Lots of great advice here. I've been picking Bill Dearborn's brain for a few years, an excellent source of reliable, actionable information. Just so you know, my stock car was a track weapon right out of the box--the biggest flaw was the nut behind the wheel. But, the first thing that was inadequate was the front brakes. I blew through upgraded fluid pads and rotors in the beginning--quickly transitioning to pumping brakes at the end of straights, constant bleeding and changing pads, etc--dangerous and frustrating. Got sick of that and went to BBK--solved it. The next issue to crop up will be cooling. My oil got to 297 degrees (in crappy upstate NY!) and I did cool down laps or came in. Along in there somewhere I realized I was hanging onto the steering wheel for dear life, as the stock seat is like sitting on a marshmallow, so about 3rd will be seats and harnesses. A big brake kit, radiator with EOC, and seats and harnesses just spent some serious $--DON'T SPEND A RED CENT ON ANYTHING ELSE UNTIL YOU GET THESE PROBLEM AREAS UNDER CONTROL. Do those, and in the hands of a seasoned driver, a C5z will keep just about anything out there honest, and spank most. Since my car tracked straight, I didn't trifle about things like alignment or upgraded tires in the beginning--there's so much to learn that improving the car isn't the critical path item. The guys above are very experienced--so thought you could use some observations from someone who just went through all this in the past few years--in the sequence that things needed to be done. Now after 3 years, having 12 mounted tires & wheels, I finally can imagine actually ordering the cool things--like headers, sways, etc that I wanted to order first! BTW--after all this, I now know how very much there is to learn to be a truly skilled driver--but it's fun and rewarding, and addicting.

jv8

Thanks for all the replies! Some questions regarding safety:

I'm 46 with kids and feeling very mortal... so I'm willing to spend up front on a good safety setup. That was actually one of the reasons I bought a separate "track only" car.

Anyway, good helmet + racing seat + harness are no brainers. But for harness attachment I have these options:

- harness bar
- roll bar
- roll cage

From previous cars I know I like lots of shoulder and side support in a fixed seat... but what about these seat options:

- full containment / halo
- HANS device

I know it's not strictly required for HPDE... but after watching my wife go through spinal surgeries with suicidal pain levels I'm in no mood to take on risk to save a few bucks. The car also does not have to be a convenient daily... I'd be okay with helmet required and/or crawling over a side impact bar.

Any suggestions?

Buzartiano

If you have the money a full containment seat with hans is the way to go
Cage if you can, then down to roll bar then to bar is last choice.
If you are serious about safety add a fire bottle etc.
You only have one life so whats that worth to you.
I have seen many people hurt at race tracks that were supposed to be having fun.
Parts break, tire go flat, people drop oil etc.
Buy the best you can up front and you won't regret it.

Buz

Bill Dearborn

Money does become a problem when you start to look at installing a number of those items. A cage is the safest way to go. If you can't afford to install a cage then don't bother with a roll bar. A roll bar doesn't really provide that much protection because it is already under the roof halo which is very strong. In a rollover the danger isn't the halo/B pillar collapsing it is the A pillars collapsing. Only a cage will prevent that from happening. A good cage is going to cost some big dollars. If you are thinking of doing that it might be better holding off on any mods to your current car and look for a used track car with a cage. That may be the lowest cost way to go. However, I don't consider a caged car the safest way to go on the street. If you aren't wearing a helmet your head is very close to the bar. Even a minor collision on the street could whip your skull into the bar resulting in some serious injuries.

A good harness bar with a couple of good seats and seat mounts will work. If you go with Schroth Profi II belts you can get a good harness that is FIA rated for 5 years Vs the more normal SFI 2 years. A HANS isn't a bad idea once your have bitten this bullet. However, you are looking at about $4000 to do all of that. Harness bar $500, Seats $800 each, Seat Mounts $300 each, belts $300 each, HANS $700. It all adds up fast.

Bill

FRCya!

A lot of solid advice here. There's one area I would disagree with others on, the brakes. I swapped the stock calipers and rotors on my C5 to the C6 Z06 ones and added Hawk HP plus padletts, braided brake lines, and motul brake fluid. Huge and much needed upgrade! To be clear, the C5 stock ones are adequate but you will be stressing them quite a bit, maybe beyond their capability. As you can read above, you'll have to replace them often. I would suggest spending the money on a big brake kit now and saving your self a ton of issues down the road. I have 3 track days on this setup with no cracked rotors, or safety issues. Just a ton of brake dust and lots of brake squeal.


They're not just for looks.



Clearance on front wheels



Ready to bed in.

FASTFATBOY

C6 Z06 brakes are something not so good for a dedicated track car. I wouldn't swap my C5 brakes for them.

My C5 brakes are damn good, I can activate ABS at will on slicks. What more could you need? They don't fade, no long pedal they work very very well, no pad taper yet but I may later on. If I do I'll replace the calipers and swap my DRM stainless pistons in and keep on trucking.

I'm not the fastest guy out there, but I'm damn sure not the slowest. I usually run 2-3 seconds off the NASA time trial 3 records at the tracks I run.

To the OP, with what you want to accomplish I may sell the car you have and buy a car already setup that way for pennies on the dollar. You will save a bunch of time and headache trying to get a car setup like you want.

danh52

OP,

I did this. I didn't get all that I wanted but most of the main items are already done. I just need a better seat and fresh tires. My car has an LS3 conversion with 430 HP to the tires, way more than needed for a fun track car. I'd stick to stock power and concentrate on cooling mods as described above.

Soloontario

Just to be the Devil's advocate, I wouldn't suggest the big brake kit yet. You will do fine with stock calipers, some upgraded rotors such as KNS or DBA or even potentially 2 piece rotors. You WILL need better pads and some cooling ,both of which will help somewhat with pad taper.

Big brake kits are needed for race cars that are racing and maybe for long track sessions but when you are
learning I think you would be wise to limit yourself to no more than 20 to 25 minute sessions anyway.

jv8

Good point about the roll bar! I will stick with a harness bar. Hopefully the fixed roof of the Z06 adds some strength to the A pillars?

I agree it adds up fast but I bought this car for way under $20K so a few thousand for safety prep is well within budget. I hope to end up with a reliable and safe 400 HP track car for Camry money.

To those suggesting buying a used track car - I was previously looking at caged and prepped all-out race cars (smaller displacement - not corvettes). I almost bought one but then the engine blew and the guy is off rebuilding. Even when rebuilt it will be a grenade since it's running 2X the stock HP. The car has to be towed (not street legal) and just seemed to be too much of a time commitment.

I came around to the Z06 because I was looking for something reasonably priced that is track capable and reliable with the stock OEM drivetrain. This car has just been a highway cruiser up until now so I hope it has lots of strength left and I will just be replacing wear items.

I also had a C5 back in the day (before kids)... so some nostalgia I guess. I'm a 10+ year member on this site with almost no posts! LOL I just joined back then to sell some parts.

jv8

I have to replace the calipers/rotors anyway. I bought another two 18x10.5 wheels so I have freedom to upsize the front brakes.

How about this for a big brake compromise:

C6 Z06 14" rotors. These are significantly bigger than the stock 12.8" rotors but they can be replaced for $150 a set. Way cheaper than typical BBK rotors.

Wilwood Aero6 calipers. Pads for these are about the same cost as stock ($150) and half the cost of C6Z padlets. This caliper setup costs $1000 but since I have to replace them anyway it's only a $700 adder right now.

So for +$700 I will have 6 piston 14" front brakes with stock level consumable cost (or less if they last longer). Legit? I'm trying to avoid replacing rotors every 2-3 track days.

For tires I'm going with 285/35-18 all around. Probably Michelin Pilot Super Sport.