blizz81

I know this is probably the 982nd thread asking such questions, but figured I'd try to get some info tailored to my situation as I'm also searching & reading. Maybe a bit long too but I try to provide relevant info.

I have a base C6 coupe, F55, Z51 sways, otherwise stock in terms of suspension / brakes. Have tracked an S2000 in the past, and doing some reading here figured I'd start out with a session or two with OEM pads / brakes and kind of work up. I did get new Pilot Super Sports before I went to the track.

I went to two 1/2 day morning sessions this summer - both hot days, and they're simply open "run what you brung" sessions on the 2.23 mile road course (Raceway Park of the Midlands). Both times there weren't enough participants to where we had timed sessions, so drivers were free to go on / off track as they chose. First session I went to, I racked up 134 miles...second session, probably similar. My PSSes are already shot up front as they chunked to oblivion.

After I ordered them I read that PSSes are a great street tire and seemingly can last on the track, but are prone to chunking if you overdrive them. Part of the issue there is I need more brakes, but I'm sure part of the issue is I may not be the world's best driver, and while I'm out there to get practice and improve to some degree, half of the fun for me might just be driving my car aggressively in a safe environment.

I'll say that in the 3 sessions at the same course in similar heat in the S2000, I never experienced noticeable problems with chunking with I believe RE050s, and that had no traction control or nannies of any sort. A shade lighter and not as much power obviously. Same guy behind the seat. Did have track pads on that.

Planning on pads and possibly rotors but trying to decide what's best for me for rubber. I don't want to compete in any way, really just satisfied going to a handful (3-6?) of these open days per year. Ideal rubber would be something that fits on OEM spec / 19" rear, can drive to/from track, performs decent enough for road course use (the PSS did fine, a little give near the end of the 2nd day) but will make it more than 250 track miles. Not sure if a different alignment spec would help as well (I'd have to check and see if I have the results from the shop when they put my PSSes on, I just told them OEM spec). Have seen there are more options going to 18" in the rear and I wouldn't be opposed to a separate set of track vs. street wheels and tires if the best rubber options for my usage lies there, though it seems a bit of a hassle getting there re: wheel width and offset & keeping active handling happy.

Thanks for any thoughts!

63Corvette

The most cost effective tire useage, in my opinion, is to keep your expensive and very effective Michelin PSS tires for the street (and rainy track days) and buy scrub slicks from Forum vendor GT Racing tires. Their sales price of about $50 to $200 per tire helps you to make your money go further in seat time, and many of the scrub tires have very little track time, some only a few heat cycles. Some here on the forum recommend against slicks for relatively new track drivers, but I believe the most important thing is seat time, and this plan furthers that goal.
http://gttrackdays.com/

dp201

I'm in the same situation with my PSSs, also run 4-6 events per year. I replaced a set of NT-05s with the PSS and considered it a step up in performance for about the first six track days. I still have 6/32s of tread left, but they really let loose during my last event in November. It felt like I had two flat rear tires and had to pull off. There were huge chunks of rubber on the tread and inside the wheel. Never saw or felt anything this bad, I guess they must have heat cycled out and just chunked like hell. Like you I drive to and from the track so I'm limited with tires. I'm happy with my Carbotech XP-10, XP-8 setup on DBA 4000 slotted rotors, but now considering going with either Bridgestone RE-11s or Toyo R888s, since I don't know of any other streetable options in stock sizes. I'm also waiting to see what the forum feedback will be with the new Michelin replacement tire for the PSS, it's due out this spring. May be another option.

Nowanker

Did the tires go away on the outside edges? Dialing up a little (or a lot...) more negative camber is always my first recommendation for anyone heading to the track.

blizz81

Attempting to attach pics. First pic = after track session 1, front left tire, outside to the left. Second two pics = same tire on the car after the 2nd session.

Yeah, actually now that I think about it I'm pretty sure that's what I had on the S2000 vs. RE050 (I think the 11s were the newer model of the 050s?). I don't see the R888s in factory size on TR at least, but perhaps in a size close enough. I do see RE11, RE-71R, Sport Cup 2, and Profeo R, maybe a couple of other options more in line with PSS as well. Was curious if someone had similar experience and maybe one of those options had a considerable increase in longevity (compared to my two sessions).

Thanks, I'll keep them on my radar. Slicks would probably not be the road I'd go down re: wanting to drive to / from track but looks like they have treaded tires too.

63Corvette

I am NOT a tire expert, but.............It doesn't look like your outside edges are going (more camber required) so, I would ask what tire pressure you are running, and play with the tire pressure to get more even wear across the whole tire.

fmcokc

Looks like you need more negative camber.

The MPSS's do start chunking badly when you start running them for more than about 10 laps at a time.

Here is what happened to mine at RPM or MAM or whatever it's called now.



If you are just doing HPDE's, don't go with something too sticky, it just causes problems down the road.

lobsterroboto

If you are just doing HPDE's, don't go with something too sticky, it just causes problems down the road.[/QUOTE]


I'm one of the ones that will tell you to get good with street tires.

Two primary reason.

A.) the traction limit has a pretty drastic drop off with slicks.
meaning that you'll have traction and then tadah! you won't.
Where as street tires have a more progressive loss of traction.

B.) race tires cover up mistakes very well and instill a false sense of confidence. IE you're not as good as you think you are, you're just muscling around the track with great traction. Besides, if you're new to the hobby you're not going to him the limit of the tires anyway unless you're just taking a really really stupid line.

get a few track days with instruction under your belt and start looking at changing tires.
If cost is a factor look for PSS take offs in the for sale forum, or look at bridgestone Potenza S-04 pole position tires, really good performance for half the cost of PSS.

You can also find "used" PSS that are around 5/32 which is good for 1 - 2 track weekends.


Also, dial in your negative camber that suits you and your most frequent track. If you daily with aggressive negative camber you'll eat up your tires though.

Bigwebb

do you street that brake setup? How's the noise?

Ludeaem

Im in the same boat as you. Current NT05 user who'll need a new set of tires in the spring. I am torn between PSS and 888R's that just came out. The chunking has me worried! Not going to lie!

rfn026

You're running track days. You're not racing.

Lobster has the right idea. First, new tires (especially slicks) will make you feel like Superman. I love it.

Track tires do break away quickly. It's not as bad as it was a few years back but it still happens. You have tremendous grip right to the edge and then it's "hold on we're going for a ride".

If you haven't spun out yet you're not going fast enough.

You should set you camber (and inflation) based on your temperatures. Wear patterns will only get you so far.



Richard Newton
Tools for Your Tires

C5 Hardtop

A street tire that has a lower tread wear rating (200 and lower, but not R compound) and isn't a Wet/Dry like the BFG's KWD has less of a chance to chunk in my experience.

The track and track temp has a lot to do with how bad the tires chunk or wear. A slow corner that you come into hot and then brake well into it during July will have a tendency to bring out chunking if it is going to occur on the fronts no matter what the alignment is set to.

If you have a specific track that you train on then focus on what street tires are doing well for that particular course. Identify the corners that eat the tires on that track and take it easy on that particular corner if it makes sense.

The slow T3-B on the old seattle track would chunk many of the tires I bought, especially the stock Goodyears. The technique for T3-B was to put a lot of weight on the front of the tires on entry by braking into to gain grip in steering through it so you can come out faster. Its the last corner to a straight so there is a trade off here saving tires and coming out slower vs spending the tires and flying out and gaining more speed on the straight before braking for T5.

petsur

Yeah I also have the same dilemma. Was running HPDE with my Michelin PSS's and love them. Decided to go ahead and buy scrub slicks and first day out chorded the fronts due to not enough negative camber. Had more negative camber set in the front and next time out the rears started chucking along the edge. 2 track days and toasted both front and rears. Doesn't seem too economical for me.

Debating on the direction to go this year. With scrubs only lasting 1 day for me so far, I'm not wanting to invest in a new set of Hosiers yet, and buying a couple of new scrubs for every track day doesn't seem the way to go either. Thinking about getting a second set of PSS just for the track....but I don't know which direction I'm going to go yet. I"m so confused !@

lobsterroboto

The last year, I've tracked my car with PSS only.
I have two sets of Z51 wheels that I would swap around.

With -2 front camber and 1.7 rear, the fronts last 3 weekends and the rears about 4 - 5

Occasionally I buy used PSS with about 5/32 tread and they last 1 - 2 weekends.

The car is only driven to and at the track it's rarely driven anywhere else.

Scrub selection for the 19/20 OE wheel size is pretty limited, I will eventually get a set of track wheels.

The rears not lasting is a bit weird for these tires? Is it an even wear pattern? Inside or outside wear?

You should easily get double the life out of the rears compared to the fronts if you're not needlessly spinning them.

n8goodrow

The Michelin PSS is referring to the Pilot Super Sport I'm assuming. Has anyone used the Pilot Sport Cup 2? Was planning on getting for next season but looking for input before dishing out that amount of dough. Thanks

Soloontario

I have had better luck than some with PSS tires in 295/35-18 sizes as concerns wear and although they are consistent and ok in the wet, they are not fast. This past season, I used Sport Cup 2s in 295/30-18 sizes (square setup) and they are significantly faster but don't last as long. My car has adequate camber.

The Sport Cup 2s carry a 180 tread wear rating but IMO are not as fast as either the Rival S or Bridgestone RE 71 R but they will be more consistent and last longer. IMO, even the Sport Cup 2s will heat cycle out but after more heat cycles than the other tires mentioned.

63Corvette

"Quicker lap times" is ONLY important if you are in competition (race laps or such). In track days, the most important things are seat time and consistency...................and COST! If you are spending all of your money on tires, then you won't get as many laps nor as much seat time.

n8goodrow

Thanks. Do you have a tire recommendation based on your comments?

lobsterroboto

the PSC2 is a great tire just not worth the premium over the PSS.

Potenza S-04 are very close in performance to PSS but much cheaper.

If you're going to track frequently you'll want to find the best alternatives that save you the most money. This adds up very quickly.

you'll start agreeing that miata is in fact the answer.

But if you're going to be spending that kind of money on tires like the sport cup 2's and want to track more frequently, get a set of smaller diameter wheels to have a much broader tire selection and cheaper.

you can go with some R888's or Hoosier A7 or some other R compound race tire.

Race cars btw typically have 18 or 19" wheels btw and wheel diameter has little to no bearing on performance.

I would like to reiterate that using track tires as a beginner is dangerous.
They allow you to build terrible habits because they let you do all sorts of stupid things.

If you're slow to begin with and you slap some race rubber on and all the sudden you're 5 seconds faster you're going to start thinking your hot ****.

but a 5 second improvement over a shitty lap time to begin with isn't that great.

Aim for the lap time limit on streets. Anything beyond that is a bonus.

lobsterroboto

What 63Corvette said is very very true.

If you're starting out I wouldnt worry about laptimes, once you get bored of DE's and start looking into club trials or time trials then it makes a difference.

I didn't run data until I was more advanced with DE's and only then to verify consistency.
If you're 1 or more seconds different each lap, slow down and get consistent then add speed.