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Nice save on the last failure. That could have been so much worse.
You wouldn't be the idiot in hindsight with the engine situation, if anything was your builders mistake keeping damaged pistons in there. If he said you should replace them, I'd wager a bet you would have addressed the problem in one way or another.
I'd pick a new builder. LG Motorsports and Doug Rippie could build you what you want. Then have a local guy install and tune it.
Yeah, but I should have insisted on better inspection methodology like magnafluxing the rods and dye checking the pistons. I guess I trust people too much.
It's tough picking a engine builder; everybody has an opinion of who's good and who's bad. That alone is enough to make me want to just stick with the LS376/525.
Jim
I feel your pain man. I lost my motor at the same event at VIR. My car has sat in the garage since then. I've barely looked at it. I really really really don't want to go through the engine building hassle / expense. and I just don't have the $$ to just drop it off at a shop, so I'm going to have to do a lot of the work myself.
I went through this with my supercharged Mustang (615rwhp). Oil pump failed, lost the motor. Had a reputable race engine shop do the short block. But apparently they didn't get the clearances right because by 1500 miles it lost all oil pressure again; every main bearing was trashed. Full rebuild again, and then sold the car. (all forged internals both times). I lost thousands of $$ in those motors, plus almost a year of being able to drive and enjoy my car. It was a scarring experience. Thus why I'm dreading working on my C5.
Nice, but by the time I get done relocating to GA, I may be broke, very, very broke. And then if my wife saw the price tag on that motor, there could be some other things that would get broke.
Sorry, thanks for posting, I had ASSUMED those crate motors were a "good deal". Not so much, eh.
I think they still are a good deal for someone like me. I really don't drive that hard, I usually short shift 5-5500 RPM and usually have a student riding along. My best recent lap time for VIR full is 2:08.
And there's the three year warranty....
Jim
Crate motors are great for guys like us, BUT you need to change to better valvesprings for track duty.
If you have aero and slicks you need to look into a dry sump.
I'm running the ARE 4-stage dry sump system with a Spintric, dual oil coolers, remote filter and a total of 13 friggin' oil lines. All of that stuff now has to come out of the car and sent back to ARE and to the ultrasonic cleaner vendor for service. That's about $1400 if the pump is not damaged.
Jim,
Sorry to hear about all of these challenges. I was a passenger in your car in Pittsburg, it was about as fast as i've ever gone, hope your able to get it going again.
We've talked. you know I'm in the same boat. I did reach out to Danny Popp (corvette guru in Cinci). he did offer help, but getting in contact with him and getting in his cue is rough/next to impossible.
I talked with Anthony at LG a lot. he said right off the bat that if I use the GM crate, he would want to change the valve train. he did not trust the crate valve train for a track only car. he actually said he would take the base LS3 crate motor (which is cheaper), then replace the cam, push rods, valve springs etc. with the LG kit. he felt that was a proven valve train for what we will do with the car. That is likely the way I will go. he said he could build the motor and ship it to me or I can send the car and they'll do the install.
in your case, you may have another option. since you've already got the LS3 in the car, you don't need everything that comes with the crate motor. you really just need the long block. possibly look into a place like Texas Speed or Golen. for the cost of the crate motor, they may be able to build you a forged long block. Then once you're in Atlanta there are number of shops that can help with the install part. if you went that route, you are leaving the engine building to people who focus on that for a living and then just having local a shop just swap out your long block.
Oh, I know you are placing a lot of weight on the GM warranty for the crate motor. I had heard that when push came to shove and you have a claim for a track only install, GM was not paying out. if you make your decision based heavily on the warranty, you might want to poke around and verify that they will honor a failed motor when used for track.
I'm really sorry to hear about your troubles Jim. I sure hope you don't hang up your helmet as the paddock won't be the same without your smiling face.
I bet we all have had years like that where is seems like everything breaks on the car. I started referring to my C6Z as the "Millennium Falcon" because it was very fast when running but it seemed like I always had to fix something. In the end we got it all sorted out.
Have you reached out to Jason at Katech? They certainly know their stuff and have always treated me fairly.
I'm really sorry to hear about your troubles Jim. I sure hope you don't hang up your helmet as the paddock won't be the same without your smiling face.
I bet we all have had years like that where is seems like everything breaks on the car. I started referring to my C6Z as the "Millennium Falcon" because it was very fast when running but it seemed like I always had to fix something. In the end we got it all sorted out.
Have you reached out to Jason at Katech? They certainly know their stuff and have always treated me fairly.
Schwanke race engines is also a good source of info.
Last edited by FASTFATBOY; 12-23-2016 at 01:01 PM.
We've talked. you know I'm in the same boat. I did reach out to Danny Popp (corvette guru in Cinci). he did offer help, but getting in contact with him and getting in his cue is rough/next to impossible.
I talked with Anthony at LG a lot. he said right off the bat that if I use the GM crate, he would want to change the valve train. he did not trust the crate valve train for a track only car. he actually said he would take the base LS3 crate motor (which is cheaper), then replace the cam, push rods, valve springs etc. with the LG kit. he felt that was a proven valve train for what we will do with the car. That is likely the way I will go. he said he could build the motor and ship it to me or I can send the car and they'll do the install.
in your case, you may have another option. since you've already got the LS3 in the car, you don't need everything that comes with the crate motor. you really just need the long block. possibly look into a place like Texas Speed or Golen. for the cost of the crate motor, they may be able to build you a forged long block. Then once you're in Atlanta there are number of shops that can help with the install part. if you went that route, you are leaving the engine building to people who focus on that for a living and then just having local a shop just swap out your long block.
Oh, I know you are placing a lot of weight on the GM warranty for the crate motor. I had heard that when push came to shove and you have a claim for a track only install, GM was not paying out. if you make your decision based heavily on the warranty, you might want to poke around and verify that they will honor a failed motor when used for track.
I stopped by the shop to check out the damage. I don't have much left. One head and possibly the new valve springs that were just installed, the intake and the throttle body.
I'm not spending much time right now considering all of the rebuild options. I am wondering about several things:
1. What would have happened if I would have been turning 6000 RPMs?
2. Why did the flames come out of the hood vents? The oil pan had a small hole in the middle. Why didn't the flames just go under the car?
3. Why was there no oil on the track? I guess there's just so little oil in the dry sump pan?
4. Why was there no antifreeze on the track. There were holes on both sides of the block.
I put the car to bed for the winter or at least until I get done moving.
I'm really sorry to hear about your troubles Jim. I sure hope you don't hang up your helmet as the paddock won't be the same without your smiling face.
I bet we all have had years like that where is seems like everything breaks on the car. I started referring to my C6Z as the "Millennium Falcon" because it was very fast when running but it seemed like I always had to fix something. In the end we got it all sorted out.
Have you reached out to Jason at Katech? They certainly know their stuff and have always treated me fairly.
Sean,
Even if I sell the car, I'll still be around. Assuming the relo goes OK, I'll be 45 minutes from AMP, 2 hrs from Rd. Atlanta, 3 hrs from Barber and 5 hrs from NCM MSP.
Maybe I can satisfy my addiction with instruction only
Merry Christmas,
Jim
Sorry to hear that man. You would think after your VIR and RD ATL wrecks you would be due for some good luck. However, it is a tough addiction to break. Just got my $11K forged motor in and 6 sessions in it has already blew the rear seal. I was a little disheartened at putting that kind of money into a motor that you can't run over 4500rpms - but your situation is making me feel a little better if that is any consolation lol! Good luck with rebuild and hope to see you out on the track again.
Has anyone used a Blueprint Engine? They offer a fully dressed, stroked LS3 427 CI that puts out 625 HP and 565 ft-lbs of torque. I has forged Scat crank and I-beam rods with forged Mahle pistons. It comes with 30 month/50k mile warranty that allows non-competitive HPDE events.
Price is $11,500.
Has anyone used a Blueprint Engine? They offer a fully dressed, stroked LS3 427 CI that puts out 625 HP and 565 ft-lbs of torque. I has forged Scat crank and I-beam rods with forged Mahle pistons. It comes with 30 month/50k mile warranty that allows non-competitive HPDE events.
Price is $11,500.
Thoughts?
Jim
Jim - where do you see that motor?
Also, I would wonder if using a stroked motor is a good idea for road race application. since the motor will spend a lot of time 6K and above, the additional stroke adds a lot of piston velocity (thus crank,rod and bearing stress).
Also, I would wonder if using a stroked motor is a good idea for road race application. since the motor will spend a lot of time 6K and above, the additional stroke adds a lot of piston velocity (thus crank,rod and bearing stress).
I just went thru each of my sessions for VIR, Road Atlanta, Watkins Glenn, Palmer Motorsports,Pitt Race, and Mid Ohio for last year and looked at my max RPMs for the fastest laps for each session. Only at The Glen did I exceed 6000 RPM and that was consistently coming down the Laces into the Toe of the Boot. There I hit as high as 6349 RPM. Everywhere else, my shift point were in the 5500-5800 range.
I've asked for the dyno curves. You'll see the cam specs on the above web site.
Jim
12-21-2016, 03:38 PM
