Soloontario

I would put in another vote for HPDE but with a warning.

Basically you get what you pay for i.e. Autocross is cheap and not going to use a lot of consumables but you really don't get a ton of seat time. Instruction in car control is great but the skills don't necessarily cross pollinate to track driving.

HPDE is a lot more money both in registration and consumables but for me (and many others) is the best place to see what real speed is like. It is also the best place to put your car through some of it's paces.

OTOH, here is the warning. Places that talk about 3-4 hours of track time per day forget to tell you that most people don't do that much. Personally I am exhausted after about 2 hours, and so is my car. I have instructed for a number of years and find that usually students can't handle much more than 2 to 2.5 hours of track time, especially if they have classroom in between sessions.

rfn026

There is a real tendency to lump autocrossing and HPDE together. They are very very different.

Autocrossing rewards aggressive driving. If you aren't aggressive you're slow - and losing. They then put a large poster on the wall describing how slow you really are.

Track days let you go out on the track and just drive around. It just doesn't matter if you're slow. Having fun is what it's all about. No one wins and no ones loses.

Track days are like going to the dining room at the club. Autocross is more like playing for $100 a hole on the actual course.

The nice thing about track days it that you get a lot of seat time.

There is an old saying which still holds true. A good autocross driver can become a good road racer. Not every good road racer can be good at autocrossing.



Richard Newton
Historic Racing Images

BTW - Solo is wrong about autocross being cheap. It can get very expensive if you want to win. The old saying applies. "Racing is cheap. Winning is expensive."

lobsterroboto

AutoX 8 hours of waiting around for 4 minutes of driving.

don't get me wrong I enjoy autox and still go just because it's still fun even with the waiting and it's pretty cheap (if you're there just to have fun)

I do an HPDE with an organizer that puts a lot of effort into education and less emphasis on just getting you track time and I believe I'm a better driver because of it.

The autox guys who come do HPDE usually don't build skill as fast, they have bad habits and these are just observations not saying everyone who does autox has the same traits

(their hands are all over the place, I've noticed some actually driving with one hand on the top of the wheel, they are entirely to abrupt in their inputs and treat the brake pedal as an on/off switch)

Groups like NASA HPDE aren't the best option for driver development. If a group doesn't put an instructor in the right seat on every session for your first time it's not doing you any favors imo.

Cost breakdown btw for HPDE
weekend - 305
hotel - 240 (2 nights)
insurance - 300 (i've since stopped using track day insurance and got an insurance broker to add a track day rider to my policy it saves me close to 2k a year)
fuel - 100 (give or take)

SouthernSon

There are exceptions but I, too, have noticed those traits of which you speak. Although I took the EVO class several years back and had excellent instructors and have done many autox events, the inputs and car balance are very different. One micro manages the steering, braking, throttle and turning inputs in much shorter time frames and much more abruptly. I have seen a couple of guys that are able to maneuver in the same manner at much, much higher speeds but they are the rare talent. One of the fellows of whom many here are familiar has just won the Optima Challenge for the third year in a row. I have ridden in his car and he has driven mine on several occasions. But, every driver that aspires to that level would have a better chance at being one of the lucky ones in NCAA graduating to the NFL in a first round pick. I have won a few rounds of TT's here and there on the road course but I keep it smooth and on line.

danh52

I vote for HPDE and even better is one that specializes in introducing new drivers. I did my first with the local SCCA club. They had a class room session the night before and had a structured, on track class, with several car control exorcises before we hit the actual track. Also as part of that course we walked the track and went over the correct lines. A great way to learn a new track that normally isn't an option during a typical track day (in my area).

For the first timer, high temp brake fluid and maybe better pads are the only absolute must haves as far as prepping your car. Other items nice to have are,

Lots of water
Folding chair
Torque wrench for lug nuts. I like to check after each session.
Air pressure gage.

To document your day.

App for your smart phone to take video.
Windshield mount for phone.

Most important...HAVE FUN!

l98tpi

If one wants to go out and enjoy their vehicle and drive fast; HPDE is for you. If you want to learn to drive at the limit and a little beyond; sometimes. Fight to keep ahead of the vehicle and course in your mind and achieve an awesome RUSH on the edge then autox may be a good choice.

phloozy

I am not trying to start an autox vs hpde debate but i refuse to believe there are many good autoxers who have a habit of driving with 1 hand. If anything this would make sense to be a beginner hpde habit since the turns are less tight and you most likely do more shifting within a lap. Autox or HPDE if you are driving with 1 hand you are most likely a novice (outside of some unusual circumstances)

lobsterroboto

I never said "good" autox guys/gals. The good AutoX guys usually have the idea of car control embedded into their sub-conscience so they do pretty well even the first time out on a track if a little slow in the corners.

Check out some video of some drivers on youtube, you'll see them going hand over hand, jamming out to music and in general not really playing for keeps just more or less having a good time.

I can't fault anyone for doing that, they're just going to struggle developing any real skills.

phloozy

well yes thats exactly my point, its not a sign of an autoxer or track driver lol.

"The autox guys who come do HPDE usually don't build skill as fast, they have bad habits and these are just observations not saying everyone who does autox has the same traits

(their hands are all over the place, I've noticed some actually driving with one hand on the top of the wheel, they are entirely to abrupt in their inputs and treat the brake pedal as an on/off switch) "

These arent any more autox guys as they are hpde guys, they are novices in both.

lobsterroboto

I was just saying that I in general the worse offenders I have personally encountered always give me the same response "oh I autocross" but your points are more along the line with reality than my anecdotal observations.