hungryhippo

I did a search and found this thread that answered most of my questions.
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/autocrossing-and-roadracing/3659296-dry-sump-internal-or-external-pump-for-pressure.html
I still have a few questions about what would be best for my usage for those with experience.
My car is mostly a track car, but its still street legal, i only plan to do track days, no racing. I want to install the dry sump with my current engine in the car. I want to drive the car hard on hoosiers without worrying about the engine blowing. I currently drive on NT01's and take long left turns in 4th gear and have an accusump.
Is it true the install is a lot easier using the oem style oil pump?
Will that style increase the oil pressure? My oil pressure is a little lower than I'd like.
Is it general consensus that spinning over 6k rpm should use an external pump? I want to shift at 6500 but will be below 6k most of the time.
Between ARE and Aviad, who makes a more complete kit?
Is it worth the effort now or do i wait till i need to replace the engine?
I appreciate any experience anyone can share so I can have input from users and the manufacturers.

c5racr1

I replaced an engine due to a spun lifter. With the new engine I went with the katech blue pump, upgraded oil tank with the Aviad tank insert and the Aviad pan insert. My oil pressure hot at 6500 is around 65psi. I'm still on conventional 10/40 for break in. I also have the improved racing 212 oil thermostat with the big oil cooler they sell for the z06. If I had to do it over, I probably would have gone with a complete dry dump system and been done with it. I have just installed a vacuum pump from go to help with the crank case pressure. Had I went with a true drysump one or 2 of the stages would have done this. I think your budget will dictate a lot. Hope this helps. Also if you decide to to stay with a stock style pump get the katech red pump. It gives a little more pressure.

0Anthony @ LGMotorsports

Either way you go, you will have to mount the tank, plumb in all of the feed, return, and filter lines. A/C is going to go away no matter, unless you have a long post crank and use a LS7 style setup. That being said....


With the internal pressure pumps like ARE sells, there are going to be more parts, and more lines to do it. Typically you would have an external pressure regulator (not included) that you can plumb in so you can adjust pressure.

A external like the Daily system is going to remove the external pressure regulator (built into the pump and is adjustable), it will also remove the external scavenge lines from the pan to the external pump drive so there are less lines to make and less lines to leak.


Both setups work very well. Our first Challenge cars used the internal pumps without any engine issues related to oil. Later we swapped to the Daily systems because the pan was smaller and we could move the engine more in the car and it can also be used to mount the engine in the car as the DP cars used the Daily pan as the engine mount.





ARE system (not done by me)





This is a Daily setup on a C5 I did last year.



Daily setup under the car



typical filter mount



pressure feed to engine

3X2

C5 or C6? Keeping the a/c or not? Leaf springs or coil overs? Factory dry sump or wet sump? This would lead me in different directions as to what to do. OEM dry sumped C6- Dailey, end of discussion. OEM C6 wet sump- same but need to relocate battery to trunk area and run OE C6 battery cables forward. I've made up an aluminum battery mount for a C5 that replaces the right rear cubby hole in the tunk, but it requires cutting out the factory fiberglass cubby hole. Either case, I'd use a Peterson tank, Katech lower tank bracket, and (if not oem d.s. car) Z06 upper tank mount. C5- same, but you will need to relocate pcm/tac and fab a battery mount to move it to the trunk and fab an upper tank mount. I've moved the pcm and tac to where the glove box used to be. ARE Z06 tank is easier to fit especially in a factory dry sump car. Use a -10 or -12 hoses to the catch can. Vent both rocker covers and valley cove rot either the tank or catch can, even adding a second catch can just for this purpose. Plus the port on the intake manifold where the hose from the lifter valley went into.

Oil filter location is a concern. C5/6 with coil overs, the picture shown is ok, but that pf454 filter is too small. I'd go with the Katech mount and use a Wix 51060r filter. Leaf spring car? I mount the filter behind the left fender. On C6's, I use a Porsche 928 washer bottle and mount it in front of the underhood fuse panel.

FWIW, the picture showing the ARE hoses, the front one is routed incorrectly. With the upward bend, it is doing virtually nothing to scavenge oil from the pan

Any way you go, add a filter between scavenge out and into the tank. Main oil filter goes between the cooler out and engine oil in.

hungryhippo

Thanks for all the detailed input. I should have mentioned my car is an ls3 wet sump C6, coilovers, i have no problem getting rid of the a/c.
Sounds like the dailey setup is the one to get, but is it practical for non-competition use? It appears to be a lot more expensive and the least complete "kit".

Hi Volts Z06

Dailey is an a work of art but pricey. I would have to say that for you the best choice would be an ARE 3 stage scavange pan and pump using the internal pump for pressure. I've been running this setup for 4 years and run the stickiest of full slicks, pulling close to 2g's and never had an issue.

z06801

Did you upgrade the internal pump?

Hi Volts Z06

No... I really never gave it a thought. I had just blown up a big dollar LS-3 stroker motor (due to a lean out condition resulting from a bad MAF) and decided I was going to run crate motors from now on. I had the dry sump on the old motor so I just transferred everything. While I believe we ran an aftermarket pump on the old motor, that was a custom build so we bought every part a la carte. The stock LS-3 pump puts out more than adequate pressure in my opinion. I believe we run a -16 supply line from the dry sump tank located in the truck so there is always plenty of volume available to feed the stock pump.

jlutherva

Somethings to also consider with a full dry sump system is the number of single points of failure for the system (41 for a quick count on my system) as well as the number of parts that need serviced if you wipe another cam/lifter or blow an engine.

My ARE 4-stage system system with two coolers and a Spintric has 13 lines. When you lose an engine, all of this stuff has to come out and be either returned to ARE for service on the pump and Spintric or go to an ultrasonic cleaner for cleaning of the lines and coolers. This is about $2000 of additional expense.

Another thing to consider is oil changes. My system takes 3 gallons of oil on the initial fill. Sadly, oil changes only drain about about 2 gallons out leaving one gallon of dirty oil in the system. Bottom line, frequent oil changes.

And then there's the suction hoses. Don't use AN hoses for suction; they will collapse and fail! Even the hose that runs from the tank to the supply side of the pressure pump will collapse with an NA line. There are special hoses available for the suction hoses.

Also, this system does not warm up quickly. If I don't have help in the pits, I have to jump out of my student's car and then warm my car up and that can take a long time. Then I have to go out onto a hot track with cold tires.

On the positive side, my system carries at least 70 PSI at high RPMs and never runs oil temps over 240*F even at Road Atlanta in August.

Before my race car, I had a C6Z with nothing more than the OEM pump, an upgraded tank with Aviaid baffles and a larger Setrab Cooler. Worked fine and was simple.


Jim

3X2

I've never had an Aeroquip, Earl's, or Brown-Miller hose collapse. I would not use a Summit, Jegs, Russel branded hose. Some of the problems with a oem Z system is the scavenge pump can not remove the oil from the pan fast enough, the pan and tank are not the greatest in design for a racing application. There are not any "complete kits" that I'm aware of. Each is going to need, at the minimum hoses made. As far as your LS3, I'd go with the Dailey pan and pump. The Dailey system does require removing the oem oil pump. Those scavenge hoses and fittings used with the ARE pan/pump do add $ and complexity in plumbing so the hose doesn't toilet trap like the one shown above. Use -16 from tank to pump supply and from scavenge out to tank in with an inline filter. I use -12 from pump out to the cooler and to the oil filter and -10 from the filter to engine in. Remember, the oil filter is between the cooler out and engine in. I prefer 2 vented catch cans- 1 for the tank and 1 for each rocker and lifter valley cover.