froggy47

I agree, however I now do all my own prep. I have gotten shoddy work more than once from so called "professional shops". One screwup is/was enough for me.

Glad the op posted & glad he's ok. That's a lot of screwups over 5 years on one customer. Is there another side to the story? There usually is, but this seems quite overwhelming.

bigmackloud

I do agree that, as with any automotive repair, DD or racecar, the reason you pay a professional shop is so that you don't have to do the work yourself... be that because you can't or simply don't want to. If I pay a shop to build an engine, I'm not going back in to check bearing clearances.

I'm a DIY guy, partly because I enjoy doing the work, but mostly because I can't afford to pay someone. I agonize over the details, and spend the first session of every track event listening for noises and testing the brakes, etc, constantly running over in my mind every detail of whatever I've done on the car. I don't "trust" the car for the first several sessions.

When you pay a shop to prep the car, you're putting a LOT of trust in them. But that said, you are paying them, so the work should be done right. Failure to put the tires back on in the right position, or properly torque the wheels is entry level stuff. ANY shop should be embarrassed by that, much less a race shop.

If I read correctly, Black Dog repaired, free of charge, every incident you had. Plus they offered to fix the car after the final accident, or pay to have another shop fix it (that's a rare offer). It's at least noteworthy that they were willing to take ownership and fix any of the sub-par work. Far too often these threads talk about how a shop botched something but then refused to admit fault and fix anything.

I think realistically the only thing you can sue for is the value of the wrecked car, and you might make a case for "pain and suffering." But that will be tough since racing is a hobby with inherent risks that you assume responsibility for when you get behind the wheel.

As for publicly calling out Black Dog Racing for poor workmanship... I think you accomplished that.


Final thoughts, Bill Dearborn made a good point about instructors. One of the instructors I worked with last year made it a point to ask me at various times on the track what my exit strategy would be. Where would I go? What would I do? The point is to think through the worst case scenario and have a plan BEFORE it happens. I took that lesson to heart and make it a point to go through that mental exercise each time I'm on track.

froggy47

I play this thru my mind with daily driving also, when I think of it, probably should do it more often.

ErnieN85

we never do enough of that

AutobahnRacer

I knew I'd get some sh*t from a variety of members, but it's impossible to tell a 'life story' in a forum posting. As for pre-checking the car, generally I did a good job. I wasn't perfect, no doubt. The day the rear wheels were mounted on one side, I was literally standing outside of my garage, helmet on, waiting for the Black Dog truck to deliver the car (late again) for a qualifying session. They knew exactly what I was doing when the car rolled off the trailer. The purpose of my post was a 'heads up' to those who trusted as I did, and to be aware of the consequences. There is a little bit of me that enjoys the armchair quarterbacks suggesting I build my own car, prep everything. THAT is a gift and a talent I just don't have, and to enjoy the sport, I chose to write the checks to be safe. I know plenty of drivers who wrench their own cars, and to be honest, THEY'RE the ones who scare me the most - for them, it's about saving money not being as safe as possible.

AutobahnRacer

OMG - really, you can detect political party based on this thread. I'm 51 and a business owner in the state of Illinois, not generally the party of Democrat, but nice try. Seriously?

FASTFATBOY

In red is what I call negligent on your part. There is almost always more than one qualifying session, and if not you start in the rear....big deal.

So you put that session in front of your family, wife and kids(if you have those) and the people who depend on you to come home after the event???? This is a shocker to me. For you not to take the time to look the car over with the delivery guy is way off base to me, especially after all the mess they had done prior.

I am so worried about missing something on my car I back check myself, I'm getting older and in a fair amount of pain. I make a list now and check off things off when I'm done and rarely answer the phone while I am working on the car so I don't get distracted. Because people depend on me to come home Sunday night and I damn sure don't want to be screwed back together or put in the ground.

So if you would have crashed the car and died....what then? It wouldn't matter who was at fault, you're going to your own funeral.

froggy47

Well, you really don't know what you are talking about, do you? At the very least you and Black Dog contradict your statement.

This a troll/joke thread 'cause I guess I got sucked in?

ErnieN85

Not really I think he is just trying to help.

The jist of this is Trust but verify.
The verify part is the hard part
Many on here and quite a few of our students really don't know how to do that. Not all of us are engineers or mechanics and a race mechanic is well beyond the average (even good) mechanic

TrackAire

I don't think it matters if you do all the work yourself or a hired "professional" preps your car....everybody needs to know that the car is ready at a quick glance.

Years ago I watched a father and son team race in the SCCA and learned a lot from them. The son drove and the dad was in the pits doing what a single pit crewman would do to support and make sure the car was ready, etc.

One cool thing the old man did was write all the important info the car needed for each corner on the cars fender with a grease pencil. Starting tire pressures, ending tire pressures, lug nuts torqued, tire condition, sessions on each tire, etc. Although this could be done on a paper checklist (didn't have ipads back then), it did allow anybody in the pits or the driver to instantly know answers to questions asked just by looking at the specific fender in question. Checklists are great (I use them) but having the important info written on the cars fender sure worked great. With one swipe of a terrycloth towel the fender was erased so more or updated info could be written on the fender and everyone was up to speed regarding the required information needed without having to find or look for the "checklist". This helped insure that basic safety concerns such as air pressures, lug nut torque, fuel topped off, etc was done, checked off and the car was ready for the session.

Regarding the lawsuit, if AutobahnRacer is going forward with this, I highly recommend deleting all this thread as information listed so far can be used against you and detrimental to your case. You know the other side has screenshots of this thread. From things you've said to what others have said on this forum, the defense can use a lot of that as ammunition against you and your case. Just the fact that you've put up with their failures for 5 years shows you accept their incompetence and you've set a precedence for what you will accept by continuing to do business with them. Going to be very tough to prove actual damages and as you know, crashes at the track happen all the time ("hey, it was just a racing incident"). You even accepted this by signing the tracks waiver when you enter the track and waivers with the track group your running with, further proving you understand this is a potential dangerous with crashes being part of the danger.

I get wanting to sue them on principle but as I once had an attorney explain to me, principles are expensive......

I'm glad you didn't get seriously hurt in the accident and I hope this all gets worked out to your satisfaction.

rfn026

I'm not going to get involved in this p*ssing contest.

I can though offer some insurance advice.

Most shops are underinsured. That's just a fact. When bad things happen it's best that you carry your own insurance. Your insurance company will pay off and then go after the shop. You will walk away whole.

If you have On-Track insurance an accident of this type would probably have been covered. All of the legal issues would have been between two insurance companies.

I've never carried On-Track insurance but I've always raced throw away cars.

If you're running a high dollar car you might want to talk to Adam Boca at NCM insurance. I think Hargerty has the same type of policy.

If you rent a ride a the Rolex 24 most companies require that you carry insurance. The fun part is that it's usually a policy with a $50,000 deductible.

BTW - All of this advice is free so you know what that's worth.

Richard Newton
Insurance is Complicated

Rob Willis

http://sportscar365.com/world-challenge/aschenbach-gaples-confirmed-in-black-dog-speed-shop-camaro-gt4-rs/

Racingswh

Good to see someone working on their own stuff. Went out and set down the quickest ET in class ever!!

FASTFATBOY

LOL....current situation.............

0ProTEKtMitch

As a guy who has spent his life at the racetrack, driving my own cars as well as prepping for other drivers in a variety of pro series, here is my takeaway from all of this.

1. just because a shop did an excellent job on the owners car, doesn't mean they are going to do the same work for the guy paying by the hour.

2. good drinking buddies don't necessarily translate into good workers

3. a prep and deliver program is MUCH different than arrive and drive. it sounds like black dog was doing prep and deliver, and you were thinking it was arrive and drive. while subtle, the difference is important, as you have learned. if you really had an arrive and drive deal, you would not have been texting, you would have been talking, to the owner.

4. in either case, you need to have someone there, at the track, during race day, that you trust, and is in responsible for the car. that might be you, or someone you trust, or the tech that has been working on the car, but a rando tech from the shop that didn't work on it is not that guy.

5. whether it is due to mechanical fault, driver error, or a competitors mistake, crashing at the racetrack is always a possibility. if this one incident is enough to scare you away forever, then maybe you would enjoy autocrossing. (I'm an autocrosser, specifically because I want to be able to go out and run 10/10, without worrying about my car or health)

gbvette62

I am sorry to hear about your situation, but thankfully you are okay. Race cars can be replaced.

I've spent about 20 of my 62 years on this earth, crewing on various racing teams. SCCA club racers, vintage racers, SCCA Trans-Am and IMSA GTO teams. Always as a volunteer, and never receiving any compensation other than credentials, team uniforms, and the occasional meal and hotel room.

Stuff happens in racing. Things you would never think could break or go wrong, will! Sometimes it's a human mistake, and sometimes it just happens. I've made mistakes, I had a driver that wanted a gear change. I crawled under the car to pull the gears out of the quick change, and somehow put the same ratio back in. No it wasn't life threatening, it was just dumb, but it happens.

One thing we always did with the Trans-Am and IMSA teams, was have a car checklist. A sheet was kept with the car the whole time it was in the shop, to make sure that everything that needed to be done, was done. A different sheet was used at the track, and a new one was filled out after every on track session. This way we always knew that lugs were tight, oil levels checked, how much gas was used, how many laps and heat cycles were on the tires, etc. With a check sheet, there's no excuse for things being missed. The vintage racer I crew for now, builds and maintains his own cars, and keeps his own list. He never kept checklists at the track, but I have been getting him in the habit. It's now just a matter of getting the guys that go with him, when I can't, to use the check sheets too.

I can't imagine jumping in a race car, right out of the trailer. The minimum I would think you'd want to do is torque the lug nuts and check the tire pressures. Whatever the pressures were in the shop, they're going to be different by the time the car gets to the track. The last thing we do before EVERY on tack session, even the first one in the morning, fresh out of the trailer, is torque the lug nuts. It may be simple, but a paint pen and a two inch tall LF, RF, RL or RR on each tire, goes a long way to making sure the right tire, gets put on the right corner.

This^^^^^^^

There are plenty of people out there, like me, that are always looking for the opportunity to go to the track and help out. After an afternoon with someone, you can usually tell if they're reliable and competent. Most NASA, EMRA and SCCA club racers rely on friends and volunteers, to maintain their cars on race weekends. An extra set of eyes and hands, can go a long way to keeping you and your car safe on race weekends.

Twiggs

Bill, could you answer a quick question about this story for a novice at the Glen? Which turn was it going into? I'm guessing 1, 8, or 10. Also when you told him to spin in, how does one do that safely? I'm picturing cutting the wheel full lock at 135 and that causing the car to do a forward shoulder roll more than just start spinning end around end. Any safety advice you could spare would be very appreciated sir!

briannutter1

It is hard to assess these things when they happen to you. Here are some things I tell myself when **** happens because "that's racing". : The minute you throw a cold air air intake on a factory car, it's your responsibility no matter what. You have taken a car beyond its intended purpose.

Production based cars aren't race cars. People that race prep them are trying to fix deficiencies that don't make themselves apparent until they do. Even well funded F1 teams and designers **** up on a usual basis on a race bred cars.

Reggie Dunlop

Saddletan

It's like flying a plane. When it's just had an inspection, maintenance, or repair, you better spend more time on the preflight.