kdm123

I thought I might give you guys an interesting perspective on a cheap track tire vs a very expensive one.

For the past 2 years I've run nothing but Federal RS-R's on my 2003 C5Z. This past week I finally tried some serious tires: Hoosier R7s.

The Federals can be bought off eBay for $550 shipped (285/18s). The Hoosiers cost me about x3 as much.

Federal RS-R's are not race tires. They are street tires that can be used on the track. Unlike other affordable performance street tires, they will not chunk even with driven at 10/10th on a relatively heavy car like my C5Z. The worst thing about them is that they can't take any heat, and your first lap will be the fastest with each lap become progressively slower. The best thing about them is that they are so cheap. I don't know of any other tire that is so inexpensive and that is also suitable for track use (one that one chunk). A set will last 3 track days driven at a full 10/10th provided you rotate them. I run them down until the tread is mostly gone. They will be very slippery by the time you do the last track day. That said, for most people they will last much longer because most people I see on track days are driving at 7/10ths.

I should say that this is not a fair direct comparison because I used a larger wheel and tire size when using the Hoosiers. My Federals are 285/18 all around on stock 10.5 Z06 wheels, whereas the Hoosiers are on CCW wheels, 11 in the front and 12 in in the back, 285/18s and 315/18s.
The Hoosiers felt awesome the first time I used them. The amount of grip I suddenly had was just fantastic. What as also great was that they didn't wilt after a few laps like the Federals.

My C5Z is mostly stock with nearly all the mods being safety and reliability related. It is lowered on stock bolts and has a performance alignment setting, but has an otherwise stock suspension. Aftermarket rotors, stock calipers, cooling ducts. No engine mods.

My best ever time on the Federals at Willow Springs was a 1:31.3. A more typical good lap when the tires are brand new is about a half second slower. On the Hoosiers, I has so far been able to do a 1:29.75, so about 1.5 seconds faster. I do feel that there is another 1/2 second in the Hoosiers, so I would roughly estimate that the difference between the cheap tires and the really expensive ones is about 2 seconds. That said, the Federals wilt after one or two laps, so there is more time lost over the course of an entire run session.

I though this might be useful to you guys who do a lot of track days and are budget conscious. I still love the Federals and think they are a great tire for getting relatively economical seat time. I will continue to use them and also their new replacements--the RS-RR, which go for about the same price. But the Hoosiers are awesome. It's just too bad they are so darn expensive.

Ludeaem

I know more than a few people are going to say 'that's why you buy scrubs off _____' which does have merit. I just put on the RS-RR's and have been enjoying them but do not have track time them yet.

It's good to see a realistic post like this as most people (including myself) get into the rabbit hole of modding our cars when in reality only a few parts make for a fun experience.

argonaut

Based on this thread I bought a set of Federal 595 RS-R from OnlineTires.com - $114/tire. Tried them out at Summit Point this past weekend on my 99 FRC.

Damn! These have to be the best bang for the buck available. The conditions were dry and cool, mid-40s and they performed fantastic. The fastest I've ever done Summit Main was high 1:21 with new slicks and ideal conditions. On the RS-Rs I was doing 1:24's. So those couple extra seconds a lap from slicks cost me over $700 when you look at the price per tire. I'll trade the time for the $ all day long.

Not only do they have good grip for a street tire but they are also confidence inspiring with really smooth and controlled break away behavior.

Everyone says they can't stand the heat so I probably wont be as excited about them come summer but as a spring and fall tire I think you'd be hard pressed to find a better choice for the price.

Thank you KDM123 - I really appreciate your original post.

Olitho

Which track at Willow Springs did you use to record these times?

kdm123

Those times were at big Willow.

Since my initial post, my Hoosier tires are now badly heat cycled. Wow do they suck when they're old!

One problem with the RS-R tires is that they can be hard to find. Federal apparently imports a whole bunch and then doesn't import any for a while so there are times when nobody has them or at least not in the right size.
The fact is that most people really don't need an expensive track tire because they could go seconds faster if they just got more seat time.

Ludeaem

I guess it should be clarified that we are talking about the RS-R and not the new RS-RR correct?

I have the new RS-RR in 275/35/18's but have yet to track them. On the street they have been fantastic compared to my NT05's (just not in the sound department)

kdm123

I'm talking about the RS-R. The RS-RR don't fit my lowered car because the aspect ratio is to tall. I'm told that they have a grippier compound than the RS-R. Both tires will continue to be made according to my tire guy

SocalC5Z

Well those are smokin' times for big Willow in a nearly stock C5Z on street tires. A 1:29 on the R7's is blazing as well. I've run 1:33 and didn't think there was more than another 1.5 in the car. Good review on the tires...now rethinking my driving strategy's LOL

wtb-z

Thanks for the info. I sort of want to run at least one 1:29 lap at Big Willow in my C5Z06 without touching anything. But I don't really want to buy Hooisers, and I don't think I can drive any better than you, so maybe I will give up

dowroa

kdm123:

You addressed the price v. wear for the RS-Rs. While I understand the R7s have not be worn through yet, could you address the wear rate you are seeing and how long you expect to see the R7s last? That would give a relative good metric to compare the price v. wear for the two using your driving patterns as a control.

Thank you!

kdm123

Sorry, I can't give you a real scientific answer for that. I have gone through Federal RS-R's like popcorn, but I'm new to Hoosier R7's.

I have run the same Hoosiers on both my cars, my '03 Z06 and my '92 C4 race car. I'm fortunate in that I have a trailer at the track where I can keep my extra set of wheels/tires.

My Hoosiers are so badly heat cycled it's ridiculous. I haven't done many laps altogether; just a lot of heat cycles since I did a lot of track days were I just did 5 laps at a time.

By the way, when I first posted this thread, it was back in December and apparently Federal had imported a bunch of tires. I just checked on eBay again, and the size I used is mostly sold out. There are some for sale but they are way overpriced. Same with the RS-RR's. The problem with these tires is that they are not imported on a regular basis. When I see them advertised or my tire guy has them, I buy a whole bunch at a time.

I think the best mod you can do is to invest in yourself. I try to maximize my seat time. I spend a crazy amount of money on my racing, but I'm not rich and simply can't afford to buy $1500 tires. So, the Federals are my bread and butter, and the Hoosiers will be an occasional indulgence.

Hope that helps!

Suns_PSD

I wish they made the Federals in my size as I would run them for sure and frankly get a lot more track time.

jaredtxrx

Same, I loved my RS-R's on my previous car. Tons of grip and pretty decent tread life even for 140tw tires.

There were a little noisy on the highway when driving to the track, so nothing I would daily drive but fine for short trips.

Hopefully with the RS-RR's going to a 200tw rating they will start offering a greater range of sizes.

z06801

It seems they would sale a lot of a 315/30/18 or even a 305/35/18 who can we call?

okaythen

Thinking about getting RS-R for my focus st for HPDE/DD combo. Sounds like on track they are really good but How's the road noise?

So they last you 3 track days when driving at 10/10th, by that do you mean tracking it at 100%? I do 3,4 track days a year, I hope they last awhile. (just started HPDE)

argonaut

Road noise and what one person thinks is tolerable vs another is very subjective but IMO the road noise for the Federal 595RS-R is fine, didn't concern me at all. Toyo R888 are louder as a reference point.

The RS-R is a 220 tread wear tire. They don't heat cycle out and they don't wear like a Hoosier for example (i.e. they don't cord in just a few days). Personally, on my C5, I used them and used them - sure the grip may tail off a bit over time but I never wore them out - sold the car with them still on (probably had about 20 track days on them at advanced/instructor level). Besides - the ST doesn't have enough power or speed to really punish them, nothing like a Vette can.

FYI - I have a 2015 ST (its not my track car), I think the RS-R would be a great tire for it.

Hope that helps, Brad.

Kubs

If you thought the R7 was amazing, wait until you get ahold of some A7's. They grip until they chord, unlike the R7 which hits a wall after a handful of heat cycles.

okaythen

What a coincidence that you got a ST also! I got a 2014 ST. It's my DD and recently I tried HPDE for the first time and got hooked into it. Looking to do more. Only got FRPP and it just runs and runs at the track, temps were good it never overheated during 30 min sessions. Love the car.

RS-R sounds like a great tire, really tempted. Was reading about MP 4S in tirerack and the "dry performance" is even higher than RS-R and a lot of other similar track tires. That's pretty amazing, every category is really good. But a lot more expensive. Decisions decisions!

One review said RS-R gets 5MPG for his DD/HPDE car, but looked at other reviews I didn't see anyone mention about mileage, MPG etc. Did you notice a big decrease in MPG?

Thanks for your reply that really helped. They got RS-RR now but RS-R they are still making them right? local shop had to wait 1.5 month for them to get RS-R

argonaut

I've driven and instructed in cars with the Michelin's and they are F-ing awesome for a street tire but very pricey. My tendency is to go for highest bang for buck and thus the Federals are my choice for a low cost, dual use tire with surprising grip. But if cost wasn't a concern then, Yea, get the Michelins.

When I had the Federals on my Vette, I cared nothing about MPG, so don't have any data for you there. (in case it wasn't clear, I do not have the Federals on my ST).

The RS-R is still listed on Federal's website. Thats the tire I've used. The RS-RR is a little lower tread wear rating (which one would assume means its a little more track oriented) but I've never tried them.

dowroa

okaythen:

You had PM'd me, but I will answer here for the benefit of the thread.

The reason that that Federal vs an R-compound tire discussed here is due to the strange sizing of the OEM wheels on the C5Z06. Even running 18x10.5" all the way around, as good set of 200TW cost about 1100. The RS-Rs came in for much less -- 550 for a complete set making them a debatable option at the cost of noise. However, if you are running the other 200TW, there is some sense in looking at R-compounds. Doing so introduces more of a problem in logistics and complexity, as well as concerns with oiling on stock cars.

Since you are talking about a Focus ST, I would personally not even be considering the RS-R tires.

For your car, or anything that can shod popular sized autoX tires, I would look at how much you want to spend for a set.

For example, if I wanted more grip but some longevity, I would start at Kook RS-4s, StarSpecs or RT-615K+s in the largest size you can put on the wheels you have.

There is also Maxxis that has makes the Victoracers I would consider.

If that isn't enough grip, I would then go to RE71Rs or Rivals.

For your car's sizing and pricing, I would be looking at the large variety of 200TW tires you have to choose from that are more than reasonably priced. That car's tires will be 50% of the C5z06's tire budget and more than likely last twice as long (with adequate camber).

For the C5z06 sizing and power, there are a lot fewer choices for the size and grip the car needs.

Personally, I would get RE71Rs on a Focus ST, reduce the front roll stiffness, max the static negative camber, zero the toe, and send it.

Good luck in your choice!