kedvesh

I'd like to get back into the HPDE hobby after five years of focusing on work and family-centered issues.

I think I may participate in only one to three HPDEs a year (more likely two). Tracks high on my return list are VIR and Sebring (a beast!), both which I've driven before, both on UHP summers and DOT-R tread compounds.

My track wheels (stock C5Z06) are currently shod with some DOT-Rs: Nitto NT555RII, 275F/305R. I view them as hockey pucks at this point in time, unsuitable for street or track use; last used on the street in summer of 2016; track - summer of 2012; manufactured in 2011.

I also have:
- a set of stock C5 Coupe wheels that are currently shod with Continental ExtremeContact DWS06 A/S tires (2015 manufacture).
- a tire trailer to tow behind my C5 for storage/transport of tires/wheels and tools.

With all the new tire compounds released over the last few years, what might the community's recommendation be for track shoes on my C5? What makes the most sense WRT the fun factor, safety, and (dare I say) cost?

Tires I'm currently considering for the Z06 wheels:
- Continental ExtremeContact Sport (I could leave my trailer at home if I used these tires)
- Nitto NT05
- Nitto NT01

Or, I could attempt to use my DWS06 tires, but I have no experience with them on a track in the dry at speed. My experience with A/S tires on the track is limited to some prior Bridgestone Potenza 960AS tires. They were great in the rain (street or track), but got very greasy after a few laps when heat got into them.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts on the above!

Dan H.

I have Conti DW's that I bought as a rain tire when I had a chin event that was showing as a rain out. I've been fortunate enough to not have tried these in the rain yet, but they are considered by many as a good rain tire if you don't want to go with hoosier h2o's. While I don't have rain experience with DW's, I did have to run these at WGI when I corded some hoosier scrubs I had been running. I can say that the DW's really stink as a DE tire in dry conditions. Grip felt low and the tires felt spongy and disconnected. I had to psych myself up when running these saying people pay money to run pace laps at lunch and the DW's are at least better than that. If you want to run fast and push/challenge yourself, these aren't the tire for that.

I'm on my first set of NT-01's and I really like them so far. I ran NT-05's when I first started running DE events. They were a good beginner tire, but it sounds like you may be past that. The NT-01 has more grip and a quick search will show many like them for their consistency and longevity.

emptnest

My experience is the same as Dan's except that I have 3 days experience with my Conti DW's in steady rain. They were predictable and provided what I thought was good grip for the conditions.

I was was able to run about 5/10ths in steady rain. It was easy to find the traction limit, and if I pushed beyond it they allowed me to recover easily. And two of these days were at Mid Ohio which I hear is particularly slick when wet.

Like Dan, I initially ran Nitto NT 05 as my dry tire, and have moved up to Nitto NT01. The NT05 out performs the Conti on dry track.

Soloontario

You have a tire trailer. Get the NT01'S and put them on at the track. As long as there isn't standing water or a deluge, you will be surprised how good they are in the wet.

moose.b3

Toyo has come out with a new compound R888r recently. Although sizing may be a problem early on in their release.

danh52

Can't the NT01's be driven on the street?

Phoenix64

I've run Quite a few tires on my C5 Z06.
You save a lot of money with A/S tires, because brakes, and wheel bearings last exponentially longer.
The MPSS is the best balance of lap times vs wear.
Lap times are from Barber MSP.

-Michelin A/S 3+ 500TW
255/40-17 & 285/35-18
1:45.01 - 9/32nds after a full dry weekend 75*
Twitchy but fast, not forgiving on the limit, and will chunk if you do big slides, but wear like iron if you drive at 9.5/10ths.

-Potenza S-04 pole position 280TW
255/40-17 & 285/35-18
1:48.xx Easiest to drive tire, and the best balance I've ever driven. These tires are like magic.
The downside is that they barely lasted 2 weekends, they're heavy and not very grippy.

-Continental DW extreme. 275/40-17, 295/35-18
Great tire for standing water.
Garbage in the dry. The steering feel was dangerous on these tires. Lap times were about the same as 245/245 MPSS and potenza, 1:48.xx but I wore the DW's out in 1 weekend.
My experience was so bad with the DW's I'll never buy a continental tire again.

-Trofeo R 295/30-18 square. 60TW
1:40.7, lasted 1 weekend, and took a set of brake pads with them.
Had more time in them, but I wore them out before I really got good and comfortable with them.


-Pzero- Nero 285/35-18 square. 400TW and aged 5 years(2011 build date tested in 2016).
1:48.32
Wore like iron, and no chunking even driving like an idiot and sliding the hell out of them.

-MPSS- 245/40-18 square. 300tw
1:48.17
Not the best steering feel or the easiest to drive, but they are by far the most consistent from full tread down to the wear bars.

Here is a quick video comparing wear and tear cost of my C5 Z06 vs my buddies GT350.
I'll do a full comparison of the 7 or 8 tires I ran at barber someday.

For comparison on brakes, I got 2 days on the trofeo R tires and the carbotech pads were nearly gone.
On the street tires I've gotten as many as 7-8 days from the same pad/rotor combo.

bj1888

Yes, but they are pretty miserable street tires in my experience, especially when they're cold and it's raining. 100 treadwear rating means you don't really want to put a lot of miles on them anyway (OP is in Pennsylvania and talking about driving to HPDEs in Virginia and Florida). The 200 treadwear NT05 is a better option if you're looking for a more streetable tire that won't embarrass itself at the track.

Soloontario

Sure but they are noisy, not that comfortable and no good in a heavy rain with standing water. Also at 100 tread wear rating, you don't want to have them disappear on the street. OTOH, they are clearly the best HPDE tire discussed here, i.e. the most predictable, the most heat resistant and the most resistant to chunking. Just put them on the trailer along with a jack and change them at the track.

crimlwC6

Nt01s. Trailer them to the track.

mwestc5

Past 2 years I've been running Yokohama Advan AD08R, I got these because a friend has been running them on his 911 and driving to & from the track. I've been in his car as his instructor and continued periodically catching rides with him as he made his way from Novice through Instructor. I was always impressed with these AD08's.

Prior to my C5-Z06 my track cars had been a Nissan 350z, a base Miata, SC Miata and a V8 Miata. With the exception of the 350, all the cars were strictly track cars that I towed. I went from shaved Toyo RA1's, to 888's to an all out Hoosier Slick. 2 years ago I decided to stop towing and sold my v8 got the Z06 and now drive to the track.

I really like the Yokohama as a track tire ( I do 35-40 HPDE days per season, Instructor group) and feel very comfortable driving it to/from the track at highway speeds in the rain. Aside from on track performance my next biggest concern is being able to drive it to/from track in the rain. I've been running 295x30x18 all around on stock Z06 wheels.
I got 2 years out of them and ran them down to the cords and I felt comfortable with the grip all the way to the cords.

All that being said I am considering moving to Bridgestone RE071R.
Have not yet made my final decision.

Regarding Noise & Comfort.
These are track tires so noise and comfort are not an issue but on highways I did not find them overly noisey or uncomfortable.

fuggles

Sorry. How do you run a square setup on stock wheels? You must have non-stock rims for an 18" square setup.

I'd love to try these tires but sizes are not good for stock 17/18 rims.

I don't hear anyone talking about the R888s. Souring the internet results in mixed reviews.

mwestc5

When I got the car it had 17's up front & 18's in rear.
I bought a set of 18" Z06 wheels from a track buddy of mine. I thought they were stock, they matched up with the 18's on my rear and looked like my 17's up front. They look like stock Z06 wheels.
Maybe I'm wrong.

re: 888's
The 888's were big with the Spec Miata Racing crowd. They replaced the RA1's and did not need shaving. Once I got the Vette I noticed a few track guys, Porsche's, Mustangs and Vettes running the 888's. They all liked them. One thing about the 888's is most people run the wrong tire pressures. usually too low. It's crazy but they grip really well starting out around 40-42psi cold and in low 50's hot. Sounds nuts, but that's where I found they worked best as did my buddies that I convinced to try these crazy pressures. And they were very skeptical.

I was using the 888's on my v8 Miata till going to a dedicated Hoosier Slick. In my search/reviews of track/street tires for the upcoming season the 888's seem to lag behind the Yokahama and the Bridgestone, in driving in the rain. When I had the 888's I was towing my cars and did some driving in the rain on the track and they seemed OK, but once I went to the v8 Miata I pretty much bagged driving in the rain on track. The Yokahama's were very solid driving at highway speeds in the rain and the Bridgestones according to the reviews are supposed to be pretty solid in the rain too.

I've always run 4 square on all my track cars. Primarily for the ease of rotating tires and moving the tires to where I needed them and reduced the hassle of 2 sets of wheels and tires and the added expense. And I run the same set up on my C5 convertible street car so I can move wheels/tires between the 2 cars.

fuggles

Thanks for the detailed response.

The C5Z is new to me. I'm collecting info to get it setup for street/track use. I will probably go with the 888s first and see how I like them. See how I like the balance on the car. Then decide on track rims and tires. Square sounds good as long as I can get them wide enough! lol.

mwestc5

Regarding set up for street/track use. I would not mess with the engine/drive train at all. If you're going to spend any money then spend it on safety items, a good racing seat, better brakes. Then maybe increased cooling and suspension. Eventually maybe a roll bar. But at 1st I'd just do the basics.

I'm running the 295x30x18(Yoko) they fit fine up front.
They do rub a little if you go lock to lock but if you're on track going lock to lock you've got bigger issues.

On my driveway or in the paddock I sometimes go a bit to far and get minimal rubbing but I'm probably going under 5 mph and immediately turn it back in a bit.
One thing about the 888's is they're available in lots of sizes.
If you have not yet done so got to Toyo's or Tire Rack's site and check out the specs. Once you go above 35 aspect ration you may run into rubbing problems with larger tires.
If you search 888's you'll find some good info from racers driving various cars on 888's. that's where I found the tire pressure info. I was heading to WGI and did not have the ***** to run those high pressures there because it's a high speed track with little margin for error. My next event was at NJMP, lots more run off room with walls a bit further back. I was very surprised at the increaseed grip at those higher pressures.

fuggles

Continuing to thread jack... Hopefully the discussion is still useful to others...

Thanks for the good advice. I am coming from a high horsepower, high downforce car. I'm not sure of the grip levels of the c5z yet. In my previous car I could not stay in the seat without a harness. So first mods on the list is are good racing seat, roll bar, harness, rotors, racing pads, fluids and tires. Then many laps. Power is definitely last, if at all. I need the car to be CARB legal until it becomes a dedicated track car.

Thanks for your inputs. You obviously have a wealth of knowledge.

mwestc5

FUGGLES
Sounds like your a Ca guy.
And sounds like you know the track routine.
Yes, definitely starting out I'd do seat and if no roll bar yet you can get a cam lock that works with your stock seat belt. Not as good as a 5/6 pt harness but better then the stock belt without the harness. This cam would work pretty well with your stock seat.

I was never a Vette guy, but after instructing in maybe a 100 Vettes and seeing them on the track I was slowly won over by their handling and reliability when left in stock form. I researched the C5 and C6's. I liked the look and price of the C5's, so that's what I went with. Good luck.

Soloontario

Sorry guys but good friends don't let friends buy 888s. NASA Spec Miata, American Iron and Spec E30 series used to run on Toyo RA-1s. When Toyo brought out the 888, they switched to 888s and Toyo effectively stopped production of the RA-1. Within a season the screams and yells about how bad the 888 was compared to the RA-1 could be heard even up here north of the border. The best anyone could say was that no one actually knew how to set up their car on 888s. Suffice it to say, Toyo brought back the RA-1 but only in the sizes used for those series (i.e. not Corvette type sizes which were previously available.)

Interestingly now these Spec series run on Toyo RRs which are also not available in Corvette type sizes if you want anything wider than a 275.

I have personal experience with both 888s on a Camaro and NT01s on my C5Z. The 888s were the most disappointing tire I have ever bought (admittedly a few years back as I would never buy another set) and the NT01s are great. Maybe they have changed but I know a number of others who have bought 1 set and wouldn't buy another. Unlike both the RA-1 and the NT01, the 888s heat cycled in to hockey pucks in a remarkably short time whereas the former 2 were good down to the cords. Interesting tidbit is that Toyo tires is the parent company for Nitto so who knows what they are doing with the NT01 compound.

I now run on "street" tires that have to be able to be consistent for at least 10-15 minutes or more. Rules out the RE 71R despite it's obvious high level of grip. Used Michelin Sport Cup 2s last year and thought of going to the Yokohama AD 08R for this year. Glad to hear folks have had good experience with the Yok. The Michelins were good but certainly not R compound good or Hankook RS3 fast but at least were very consistent.

mwestc5

I beg to differ re: the 888's
Yes I'm well aware of all the squawking about the 888's vs the RA1's.
I liked them both (I ran the RA1's shaved) but once I got the tire pressures right, the 888's were great. I got quite a few track days out of them and drove them down to and on the cords and still had decent grip. I think a lot of the issues with the 888's had to do with too low tire pressure.
But since I'm now driving to the track I wanted a sticky tire that would still get me home on a rainy day. The past 2 years the Yoko Advan A08R's did that with no drama. The reviews of the R71 sound like they'll do everything the A08's did but with maybe a bit more grip.