Recommend bigger brakes for 85 C4
10-28-2003, 08:30 PM
#1
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Recommend bigger brakes for 85 C4?
What are the best (road racing) brake upgrade kits for the money???
[Modified by ~VetteDave~, 3:00 PM 10/31/2003]
[Modified by ~VetteDave~, 3:00 PM 10/31/2003]
11-08-2003, 03:09 PM
#2
Safety Car
Re: Recommend bigger brakes for 85 C4? (~VetteDave~)
Dave, I upgraded to Porterfield r4s pads and their rotors crossdrilled and cryo treated. las year at the track I used up anew set of stock pads in one day! this year 1/32 off the pads and the rotors stille showed the double grind pattern after two days! I never had a fade problem with either. although my car is mostly stock. This was at Pocono race way and top speed (for me) was about 120 on the straight & drop to about 85 for the turnin this will maybe give you some idea of the stock setup vs a better pad & rotor. also the rears do mostly nothing I didn't have any signs of wear on the rears after two years of use (track included) with stock pads. and yes they are working
11-08-2003, 08:36 PM
#3
Burning Brakes
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Re: Recommend bigger brakes for 85 C4? (ErnieN85)
Ah good to hear. I am doing a similar upgrade with pads and rotors on my 85 this winter. I got some CarboTech pads, when I was talking with the tech he told me that stock pads would be find for the rear, guess he was right.
11-08-2003, 09:37 PM
#5
Safety Car
Re: Recommend bigger brakes for 85 C4? (~VetteDave~)
No I did not change size from stock. i was advised that it would be better. but so far i am not fast enough to need it. apparently the size of original is enough if you don't have more HP on tap!
That said it seems from what i have heard that if you have enough HP (over 400) that none of the corvette brakes are enough! i have friend with brembo's on his 600hp ZO6 and he managed to grenade a stock rotor so he is using the whole brembo setup with two piece rotors. I have heard of the C4 big brakes not being enough and the c5 caliper spreading under load when hot. I'd say that it depends on you and your motor
That said it seems from what i have heard that if you have enough HP (over 400) that none of the corvette brakes are enough! i have friend with brembo's on his 600hp ZO6 and he managed to grenade a stock rotor so he is using the whole brembo setup with two piece rotors. I have heard of the C4 big brakes not being enough and the c5 caliper spreading under load when hot. I'd say that it depends on you and your motor
12-13-2003, 01:30 AM
#8
Re: Recommend bigger brakes for 85 C4? (~VetteDave~)
Assuming you don't have access to a brideport CNC mill and CAD software,
you are like me, and are going to have to pay someone to do a kit for you.
Brembo & Alcon are what is used on Road Race and 'Cup Cars. However
I'm convinced Willwood is the best for the money. No one races Corvettes
with stock brakes unless the rules say they have to (like the TCC series or SCCA T1)
Corvettes weight in the neighborhood of 3200 to 3400 lbs. This is big.
IF you are doing HPDE on road course tracks and want great dependable brakes you need to thing big. Put brake temp paint on the back
of your pads and sides of your rotors and you will see the numbers we
need to deal with. We are in the 1400-1600 deg F range. This too is big.
These cars need 1 3/8 thick floating rotors to deal with the heat levels generated. 1 1/4 is marginal and 1.100 is just not going to cut it.
13 inch diamater rotors mininum, 6 piston calipers up front,4 piston in the back
and TWO 3 inch brake ducts on each front rotor and hub assembly. This is
going to need a different Master Cylinder because total caliper piston size
has gone from about 3.54 to 5.40. Another reason to have a kit done for
you in that they can engineer the proper M/C bore size and save you
cut and try expense modifying truck units.
80% of the kits sold are for street and occational track use, look impressive
but are not much, if at all, better than the stock 13 x 1.100 rotors and PBR
calipers we currently have. Unless you have the early C4 with the really
pathetic brakes.
Precision BRakes
are putting together a 6 piston Grand National III caliper kit with 1 3/8 by
13 rotors (so I can use 17 rims) for $1900. Yes, I'm going to eat some
unsprung weight but i'm using CC wheels from Priveteer to help compensate and the Willwood GN calipers weigh only a few pounds each. IF this was my
race car we would have 1.250 rotors for sprints and 1 3/8ths for enduro but
its not race car.
Next year I plan to do the rear. Precision did a rear 4 piston caliper kit with a functional parking brake for a guy with a C4 that was willing to pay the development costs so they have the drawings and can make them. Tjhe
quoted me $1200 for a rear bold on kit.
Kevin Hill is having a similiar Wilwood system for his car that will probably
be finished before mine. The down side is this is not off the shelf and you
have to wait 6 weeks for build.
Bear does an Extream Plus (?) kit for the C4 using 1.250 x 13 rotors with
Alcon 6 piston calipers that you can check out on their web site.
StopTech does 6 piston BRembo kits for the C4 and C5. I seen these
used on some of the GrandAm cars. They use the Porshea 6 piston Turbo
caliper that has become the standard. You can check out their web site
With ALcon and Brembo systems you are getting in the $3500 - $4000
range because the calipers alone cost up to $1500 for a set!
Another advantage of Willwood is that severice parts are much cheeper since they are not comming in from England or Italy and there are loads of
Circle Track vendors that sell them as opposed to a few select dealers.
My opinion is that you are waisting money with the small cheeper
I say this because my 1995 has a Brembo 13 x 1.10
4 piston "Viper/Lotus" kit that the prevous owner paid about $3000
that are no better that the 13 x 1.10 PBR's the car came with. Both
systems have identical pad serface area. I have yet to crack a rotor.
because there is a big advantage using a proper floating hat design
as opposed to the stock rigid hat design. A floating hat partially helps
prevent rotors from cracking but I'm just not hapopy with capacity.
Think I'm crazy? all I can say is drive a 911 or a 944S2
you are like me, and are going to have to pay someone to do a kit for you.
Brembo & Alcon are what is used on Road Race and 'Cup Cars. However
I'm convinced Willwood is the best for the money. No one races Corvettes
with stock brakes unless the rules say they have to (like the TCC series or SCCA T1)
Corvettes weight in the neighborhood of 3200 to 3400 lbs. This is big.
IF you are doing HPDE on road course tracks and want great dependable brakes you need to thing big. Put brake temp paint on the back
of your pads and sides of your rotors and you will see the numbers we
need to deal with. We are in the 1400-1600 deg F range. This too is big.
These cars need 1 3/8 thick floating rotors to deal with the heat levels generated. 1 1/4 is marginal and 1.100 is just not going to cut it.
13 inch diamater rotors mininum, 6 piston calipers up front,4 piston in the back
and TWO 3 inch brake ducts on each front rotor and hub assembly. This is
going to need a different Master Cylinder because total caliper piston size
has gone from about 3.54 to 5.40. Another reason to have a kit done for
you in that they can engineer the proper M/C bore size and save you
cut and try expense modifying truck units.
80% of the kits sold are for street and occational track use, look impressive
but are not much, if at all, better than the stock 13 x 1.100 rotors and PBR
calipers we currently have. Unless you have the early C4 with the really
pathetic brakes.
Precision BRakes
are putting together a 6 piston Grand National III caliper kit with 1 3/8 by
13 rotors (so I can use 17 rims) for $1900. Yes, I'm going to eat some
unsprung weight but i'm using CC wheels from Priveteer to help compensate and the Willwood GN calipers weigh only a few pounds each. IF this was my
race car we would have 1.250 rotors for sprints and 1 3/8ths for enduro but
its not race car.
Next year I plan to do the rear. Precision did a rear 4 piston caliper kit with a functional parking brake for a guy with a C4 that was willing to pay the development costs so they have the drawings and can make them. Tjhe
quoted me $1200 for a rear bold on kit.
Kevin Hill is having a similiar Wilwood system for his car that will probably
be finished before mine. The down side is this is not off the shelf and you
have to wait 6 weeks for build.
Bear does an Extream Plus (?) kit for the C4 using 1.250 x 13 rotors with
Alcon 6 piston calipers that you can check out on their web site.
StopTech does 6 piston BRembo kits for the C4 and C5. I seen these
used on some of the GrandAm cars. They use the Porshea 6 piston Turbo
caliper that has become the standard. You can check out their web site
With ALcon and Brembo systems you are getting in the $3500 - $4000
range because the calipers alone cost up to $1500 for a set!
Another advantage of Willwood is that severice parts are much cheeper since they are not comming in from England or Italy and there are loads of
Circle Track vendors that sell them as opposed to a few select dealers.
My opinion is that you are waisting money with the small cheeper
I say this because my 1995 has a Brembo 13 x 1.10
4 piston "Viper/Lotus" kit that the prevous owner paid about $3000
that are no better that the 13 x 1.10 PBR's the car came with. Both
systems have identical pad serface area. I have yet to crack a rotor.
because there is a big advantage using a proper floating hat design
as opposed to the stock rigid hat design. A floating hat partially helps
prevent rotors from cracking but I'm just not hapopy with capacity.
Think I'm crazy? all I can say is drive a 911 or a 944S2
12-13-2003, 12:27 PM
#9
Burning Brakes
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Re: Recommend bigger brakes for 85 C4? (mvitacco)
Mark, thanks for the great info. Do you know if the Precision kit fit under the stock 17" corvette wheels? Maybe the A-molds?
thanks,
--steve
thanks,
--steve
12-13-2003, 07:06 PM
#10
Melting Slicks
Re: Recommend bigger brakes for 85 C4? (mvitacco)
Assuming you don't have access to a brideport CNC mill and CAD software,
you are like me, and are going to have to pay someone to do a kit for you.
Brembo & Alcon are what is used on Road Race and 'Cup Cars. However
I'm convinced Willwood is the best for the money. No one races Corvettes
with stock brakes unless the rules say they have to (like the TCC series or SCCA T1)
Corvettes weight in the neighborhood of 3200 to 3400 lbs. This is big.
IF you are doing HPDE on road course tracks and want great dependable brakes you need to thing big. Put brake temp paint on the back
of your pads and sides of your rotors and you will see the numbers we
need to deal with. We are in the 1400-1600 deg F range. This too is big.
These cars need 1 3/8 thick floating rotors to deal with the heat levels generated. 1 1/4 is marginal and 1.100 is just not going to cut it.
13 inch diamater rotors mininum, 6 piston calipers up front,4 piston in the back
and TWO 3 inch brake ducts on each front rotor and hub assembly. This is
going to need a different Master Cylinder because total caliper piston size
has gone from about 3.54 to 5.40. Another reason to have a kit done for
you in that they can engineer the proper M/C bore size and save you
cut and try expense modifying truck units.
80% of the kits sold are for street and occational track use, look impressive
but are not much, if at all, better than the stock 13 x 1.100 rotors and PBR
calipers we currently have. Unless you have the early C4 with the really
pathetic brakes.
Precision BRakes
are putting together a 6 piston Grand National III caliper kit with 1 3/8 by
13 rotors (so I can use 17 rims) for $1900. Yes, I'm going to eat some
unsprung weight but i'm using CC wheels from Priveteer to help compensate and the Willwood GN calipers weigh only a few pounds each. IF this was my
race car we would have 1.250 rotors for sprints and 1 3/8ths for enduro but
its not race car.
Next year I plan to do the rear. Precision did a rear 4 piston caliper kit with a functional parking brake for a guy with a C4 that was willing to pay the development costs so they have the drawings and can make them. Tjhe
quoted me $1200 for a rear bold on kit.
Kevin Hill is having a similiar Wilwood system for his car that will probably
be finished before mine. The down side is this is not off the shelf and you
have to wait 6 weeks for build.
Bear does an Extream Plus (?) kit for the C4 using 1.250 x 13 rotors with
Alcon 6 piston calipers that you can check out on their web site.
StopTech does 6 piston BRembo kits for the C4 and C5. I seen these
used on some of the GrandAm cars. They use the Porshea 6 piston Turbo
caliper that has become the standard. You can check out their web site
With ALcon and Brembo systems you are getting in the $3500 - $4000
range because the calipers alone cost up to $1500 for a set!
Another advantage of Willwood is that severice parts are much cheeper since they are not comming in from England or Italy and there are loads of
Circle Track vendors that sell them as opposed to a few select dealers.
My opinion is that you are waisting money with the small cheeper
I say this because my 1995 has a Brembo 13 x 1.10
4 piston "Viper/Lotus" kit that the prevous owner paid about $3000
that are no better that the 13 x 1.10 PBR's the car came with. Both
systems have identical pad serface area. I have yet to crack a rotor.
because there is a big advantage using a proper floating hat design
as opposed to the stock rigid hat design. A floating hat partially helps
prevent rotors from cracking but I'm just not hapopy with capacity.
Think I'm crazy? all I can say is drive a 911 or a 944S2
you are like me, and are going to have to pay someone to do a kit for you.
Brembo & Alcon are what is used on Road Race and 'Cup Cars. However
I'm convinced Willwood is the best for the money. No one races Corvettes
with stock brakes unless the rules say they have to (like the TCC series or SCCA T1)
Corvettes weight in the neighborhood of 3200 to 3400 lbs. This is big.
IF you are doing HPDE on road course tracks and want great dependable brakes you need to thing big. Put brake temp paint on the back
of your pads and sides of your rotors and you will see the numbers we
need to deal with. We are in the 1400-1600 deg F range. This too is big.
These cars need 1 3/8 thick floating rotors to deal with the heat levels generated. 1 1/4 is marginal and 1.100 is just not going to cut it.
13 inch diamater rotors mininum, 6 piston calipers up front,4 piston in the back
and TWO 3 inch brake ducts on each front rotor and hub assembly. This is
going to need a different Master Cylinder because total caliper piston size
has gone from about 3.54 to 5.40. Another reason to have a kit done for
you in that they can engineer the proper M/C bore size and save you
cut and try expense modifying truck units.
80% of the kits sold are for street and occational track use, look impressive
but are not much, if at all, better than the stock 13 x 1.100 rotors and PBR
calipers we currently have. Unless you have the early C4 with the really
pathetic brakes.
Precision BRakes
are putting together a 6 piston Grand National III caliper kit with 1 3/8 by
13 rotors (so I can use 17 rims) for $1900. Yes, I'm going to eat some
unsprung weight but i'm using CC wheels from Priveteer to help compensate and the Willwood GN calipers weigh only a few pounds each. IF this was my
race car we would have 1.250 rotors for sprints and 1 3/8ths for enduro but
its not race car.
Next year I plan to do the rear. Precision did a rear 4 piston caliper kit with a functional parking brake for a guy with a C4 that was willing to pay the development costs so they have the drawings and can make them. Tjhe
quoted me $1200 for a rear bold on kit.
Kevin Hill is having a similiar Wilwood system for his car that will probably
be finished before mine. The down side is this is not off the shelf and you
have to wait 6 weeks for build.
Bear does an Extream Plus (?) kit for the C4 using 1.250 x 13 rotors with
Alcon 6 piston calipers that you can check out on their web site.
StopTech does 6 piston BRembo kits for the C4 and C5. I seen these
used on some of the GrandAm cars. They use the Porshea 6 piston Turbo
caliper that has become the standard. You can check out their web site
With ALcon and Brembo systems you are getting in the $3500 - $4000
range because the calipers alone cost up to $1500 for a set!
Another advantage of Willwood is that severice parts are much cheeper since they are not comming in from England or Italy and there are loads of
Circle Track vendors that sell them as opposed to a few select dealers.
My opinion is that you are waisting money with the small cheeper
I say this because my 1995 has a Brembo 13 x 1.10
4 piston "Viper/Lotus" kit that the prevous owner paid about $3000
that are no better that the 13 x 1.10 PBR's the car came with. Both
systems have identical pad serface area. I have yet to crack a rotor.
because there is a big advantage using a proper floating hat design
as opposed to the stock rigid hat design. A floating hat partially helps
prevent rotors from cracking but I'm just not hapopy with capacity.
Think I'm crazy? all I can say is drive a 911 or a 944S2
This is very good information and I am in total agreement. I have the 6-piston Wilwood GN III's up front with PFC 01 pads. As of right now I am still running the stock MC w/3" custom brake ducts coming from the side marker lights.
This combination is very solid and I have yet to have brake fade. I bought my kit from Doug Rippie for the same price mentioned above. It is advertised at $2199 but you should be able to get it for $1900. This include pads, custom billet brackets and spacers, Stainless Steel Lines, Rotors and Billet Hats. The rotors are 1.375" x 13". You won't believe the difference between these brakes and your stockers.
I have also bought the 4 piston Superlites and am having a friend CNC the hats and caliper brackets for half of what Rippie wants ($1200). I had Corey Henderson fabricate the lines from a Truck MC and bought the Wilwood proportioning valve. We are underway getting this into the car as we speak. I hope to have it ready by early January, as I am running at Sbring on 1/18. I'll be taking plenty of pics along the way and hope to post them here.
By the way, say hi to Kevin Hill for me. Kevin used to come up to Summit Point to run the Spooktacular with the Northern Virginia Corvette Club in October. He is very fast and is one heck of a driver. :yesnod:
Mike
12-14-2003, 04:25 PM
#11
Team Owner
Re: Recommend bigger brakes for 85 C4? (luvmy92)
I like the GN caliper as the pads are bigger. It would be great if the fit below a 17" GS wheel.
[Modified by John Shiels, 6:50 PM 12/14/2003]
[Modified by John Shiels, 6:50 PM 12/14/2003]
12-15-2003, 05:53 PM
#12
Team Owner
Re: Recommend bigger brakes for 85 C4? (mvitacco)
I called Wilwood and talked to Justin he said the GN III will not fit stock wheels. and the sl6 will not take the thick pad 7420. They said I must run the thin pad which has no J compound. Lou's kit will take the thick pad.
12-15-2003, 09:07 PM
#13
Melting Slicks
Re: Recommend bigger brakes for 85 C4? (John Shiels)
They fit fine beneath a 17" GS Wheel as that is what I use. DRM Provides you with the correct offset hats, caliper brackets and wheel spacers.
Mike
Edit: This is to fit a C4... not sure what is required to run that caliper with the C5.
[Modified by luvmy92, 8:08 PM 12/15/2003]
Mike
Edit: This is to fit a C4... not sure what is required to run that caliper with the C5.
[Modified by luvmy92, 8:08 PM 12/15/2003]
12-15-2003, 09:15 PM
#14
Team Owner
Re: Recommend bigger brakes for 85 C4? (luvmy92)
I ask DRM and Wilwood today and they said no way to GN III under a 17" rim :confused: Send me a picture so I can forward it to them :thumbs:
I am probably going with LG's kit and some hats and rotors I think he is making. The rotors will have the option of being heat treated prior to the track. I really don't drive on the street anymore.
Rotors go from BOX to 150-30 :cry they are then shocked by the heat and crack.
[Modified by John Shiels, 9:17 PM 12/15/2003]
I am probably going with LG's kit and some hats and rotors I think he is making. The rotors will have the option of being heat treated prior to the track. I really don't drive on the street anymore.
Rotors go from BOX to 150-30 :cry they are then shocked by the heat and crack.
[Modified by John Shiels, 9:17 PM 12/15/2003]
12-15-2003, 09:41 PM
#16
Re: Recommend bigger brakes for 85 C4? (Raistlin)
Won't fit "sawtooth" rims but could clear a C5 Z06 or '96 five spoke with a
1/4" spacer but I would not recomend using spacers. If you go with a big
brake kit you usualy will need to change rims compatable with the kit
You can download the various templates off the BEAR web site
and us them to trial fit the rim as they do both 4 and 6 piston calipers.
IF you want to look at a Wilwood I can email you my templates ( I think
I got the soft copy saved).
1/4" spacer but I would not recomend using spacers. If you go with a big
brake kit you usualy will need to change rims compatable with the kit
You can download the various templates off the BEAR web site
and us them to trial fit the rim as they do both 4 and 6 piston calipers.
IF you want to look at a Wilwood I can email you my templates ( I think
I got the soft copy saved).
12-15-2003, 09:45 PM
#17
Re: Recommend bigger brakes for 85 C4? (luvmy92)
They will fit easily under a Priveteer rim. Talk to John about rims http://www.cccustomrims with a 13 inch rotor, if you want a 14 inch rotor, then
yes you need a 18 rim.
yes you need a 18 rim.
12-15-2003, 09:55 PM
#18
Team Owner
Re: Recommend bigger brakes for 85 C4? (mvitacco)
Randy sent me the mail from DRM I have the GS rims and bought some 18's from CCW or will in the next week or so. Then I can run Hoosiers, scrubs or some real new GY slicks. I need two sets of rims so when I cord tires I'm not stuck at the track with street tires. I didn't want to buy 2 sets of rims so I guess 13.25 rotors will do. There's no money in this sport, well not in my direction :cry
[Modified by John Shiels, 9:57 PM 12/15/2003]
[Modified by John Shiels, 9:57 PM 12/15/2003]
12-15-2003, 10:44 PM
#19
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Location: Oregon
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Re: Recommend bigger brakes for 85 C4? (mvitacco)
Your link didn't work. I added .com but that didn't help. :cry
Any suggestions? :confused:
I have an 88 Coupe with 17" wheels. What is the diameter of a C5 rotor? :confused:
I have 5 spoke 17x8.5 Eagle Alloy rims, not the OEM rims. How do I find out if a larger rotor and caliper setup will fit?
:seeya
Any suggestions? :confused:
I have an 88 Coupe with 17" wheels. What is the diameter of a C5 rotor? :confused:
I have 5 spoke 17x8.5 Eagle Alloy rims, not the OEM rims. How do I find out if a larger rotor and caliper setup will fit?
:seeya
12-16-2003, 07:12 AM
#20
Melting Slicks
Re: Recommend bigger brakes for 85 C4? (John Shiels)
John,
I wasn't aware you were running 13.25" rotors. DRM's kit provides 13" x 1.375" rotors. I am using the 17" GS wheel and the calipers fit fine. I'll post some pics when I get to work.
Mike
I wasn't aware you were running 13.25" rotors. DRM's kit provides 13" x 1.375" rotors. I am using the 17" GS wheel and the calipers fit fine. I'll post some pics when I get to work.
Mike