ztheusa

Is there a definition?

Thanks!

DZAUTO

Definitions for things like this can be somewhat subjective.
But I think most will agree to the following.
A survivor (referring to a car) is one that has mostly, or completely ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL of what was on it when it was brand new and has NEVER been rebuilt, repainted, restored or anything. That is, mostly ALL of its original, factory paint (maybe a VERY minor paint repair to a VERY small area), virgin engine/drivetrain, virgin chassis, original interior and upholstery, etc. From here on it is debatable. Original tires, belts, hoses, spark plugs and wires, wiper blades, etc, etc. Although, even if a car still had these kinds of normal wear parts still on it from when it was brand new, it certainly would be more of a survivor than one that had had hoses, belts, plugs, etc, replaced. Even if a car has sat out behind the barn for 30-40yrs and was NEVER touched or had anything replaced, and it looked like crap, it would generally be considered a survivor.
But generally, that is what is considered to be a survivor. OK, some would also refer to the above as an unrestored car. So, is survivor and unrestored synonomous? I guess it depends on how a person wants to view the term.

noelga

From the Bloomington Gold web site
"Survivors are cars that are at least 20 years old (1985’s and older) and judged to be over 50% unrestored and yet with finishes and condition good enough to use as a reference model for authentic restoration of a car just like it."

FRAC

I know that this was a general question, but ususally something prompts the question. If per chance, you have such a car, or have the opportunity to purchase such a car, and get lucky, don't do a thing to it until you have an opportunity to speak with some very knowledgeable vettesperts. I speak from experience on this subject. If you find or have a car such as this, and its originality can be verified, it is probably worth as much now as it would be restored. You should figure out what you are going to do with the car (NCRS Bowtie, and or Bloomington "Survivor"), do that, and then and only then, make restorations, or modifications. The saying is that "it can only be original once" is very true.

Once you figure out what you want to do, then do it and enjoy it.

Been there and done that.

Frac GB

bb62

I've been told (and the value guides published annually seem to agree) that survivor cars in equivalent condition to a restored car bring 50% to 100% more money. From what I've bee told, only about a dozen 1967 435 Survivors exist in "Top Flight" condition. How many out there are restored? - Many times that I'm sure.

mdz06vetter

MANY more 'big blocks" alleged to be around than were ever produced!

vetteman64

A note of interest, "survivor" as noted & defined in most of the previous posts has been copyrighted, I believe by NCRS. What does this mean to most individuals, nothing. But businesses need to be aware, to keep the lawyers away.

JohnZ

The term "Survivor" has been trademarked by Bloomington Gold, just as "Star" and "Bowtie" have been trademarked by NCRS for their judging of unrestored original cars. Both approaches are similar in nature, although the NCRS judging standard is more difficult - it requires 80-85% absolute originality in each of the four areas judged, where Bloomington "Survivor" requires at least 50%.

Paul Borowski

One other difference between the two, with Bloomington the car needs to be able to complete a 40 mile "road tour" under it's own power, whereas with NCRS the car DOES NOT need to be "operable".

The NCRS also requires the car to be "20 years old" however C4 "Bowtie" type judging still has not been finalized yet and no C4s have been judged for this type of Award.

1974 Orange coupe, Bloomington Gold Survivor in '94 & '04, NCRS 4 Star Bowtie Award in 2000 Bowling Green, KY(5th Star Award Hershey, PA 2003)


1980 Yellow coupe, Bloomington Gold Survivor in '01(sold May of '03)

1968 Silver coupe, Bloomington Gold Survivor in '03, NCRS 4 Star Bowtie Award in 2004 Windsor Ontario Canada(the ONLY 1968 Corvette with an "INTERNATIONAL" 4 Star Bowtie in the World )

65nassau

A) Mostly original Corvette

B) REALLY STUPID T.V. Show

RoadVettes

Paul B.

Those are 2 beautiful survivors

FRAC

Since I mentioned that I speak from experience on being careful what you do to a car, if you will click on my pictures, you will see my 3 Star Award, and "SURVIVOR" wannabe 67. Because of ignorance on my part, I missed by 2.5 points on the chassis from being a "Bowtie Award" car. I plan to take it to Bloomington this summer and hope to get it certified as a "SURVIVOR".

Frac GB

Harps

Frac, great looking coupe!

Paul B., always good to see your rides as well.

Here's a quick shot of our 67' 427/390 Survivor with 30k original miles. Nothing on the car has been restored, with only a couple of components replaced on it, like the fuel pump. Interesting enough, everyone says the smell of the original interior and leather has a distinct smell to it.

dejavu67

50% Not Seen, UnRestored

http://www.corvetteclubpalmbeach.com/

Ol Blue

I believe that early-on the Survivor cars were quite valuable in helping determine how they came from the factory. I'm not sure that everything learned is easily converted to judging criteria though.

I took a 64 365hp A/C coupe to Bloomington Gold when it was in Bloomington ILL for Survivor judging. The car was purchased out of an estate and all documentation was there from the order form to the window sticker. The only replacement parts were hoses and tires, both Atlas brand.

The judges were ecstatic about seeing such an original car even though the black paint was in pretty poor condition. I'm not sure it would pass Survivor criteria with todays standards but it did then because there were so few known at the time.

The biggest interest was in the engine stamping. The judges all gathered around gleefully pointed at the pad and saying, "look, it was first stamped as just a high horse engine and then the second letter was overstamped to designate a high-horse A/C car. If restored I wonder how that would be viewed in todays NCRS judging, a fake or an original factory mistake?

In a later year an acquaintenance took a 68 435 convert to have it judged and failed in survivor status because he had wirebrushed the undercarriage to the point that the judges were uncertain of the rest of the cars originallity. Be careful in anything you do to a car you are interested in trying for Survivor certification.
Ol Blue

Paul Borowski

Thanks

Rob, good to see you're still here. Hadn't seen any of your posts lately(although I'm not always here away from my C3 home.