Joemac8

Yesterday I posted:
"I've posted before regarding my 67 327/350 being under powered. Today I did a compression test.

I ran the engine for about 5 minutes then pulled the plugs. The plugs have less than 1000 miles on them. All had blackened electrode ceramics, and the plugs were wet with what appears to be oil on them.

I held the carb open while doing the test. The compression test revealed six cylinders with a compression of 150. Cylinder #6 was 140 and cylinder #8 was 110. When I tuned the car up last spring, the plug for #8 was fowled."

Today we put oil in cylinder #8 and did a compression test and it was still at 110. This seems to indicate that the rings are not the culprit?

Also today, we pulled the valve covers and found the left head to appear normal with the inside of the valve cover clean end your typical oil in the low spots on the head.

The right side was another story: There is water (coolant?) pooling in the lower left part of the head above #8. There are also drops of water (coolant?) on the last four lifters above #8 & #6. Inside the valve cover are whitish deposits which look like mayonnaise at the end of the cover over #8. A pressure test of the coolant system doesn't show any leakage. The oil on the dipstick looks normal though about 1 quart down since last year. (It has about 1000 miles on it).

The left head is #3890462 H166 and the right head is 3890462 H176.

The fellow that was lending me his leak down tester has not come through so I am still waiting to do the leak down test.

My question is what is that liquid and why is it there? I thought that it could be condensation, but only on one side and only over the poorly performing cylinder?

Any ideas out there?

67L36Driver

"The right side was another story: There is water (coolant?) pooling in the lower left part of the head above #8. There are also drops of water (coolant?) on the last four lifters above #8 & #6. Inside the valve cover are whitish deposits which look like mayonnaise at the end of the cover over #8. A pressure test of the coolant system doesn't show any leakage."

Moisture condensation from combustion blowby. Your PCV system hooked up and working?

Joemac8

Does a 67 have a PCV?

Seaside63

I had that happen to my '68 SS 350 Camaro.

Unfortunately for me it was a cracked head. Hopefully you don't have a cracked head.

Plasticman

Joe, it could be as simple as a head bolt without sealer on the threads.

See if you can track the source of the water (trail or deposits, etc.).

Plasticman

67tripwr

Here is the best idea yet! Pull it and rebuild it! All the time spent on chasing problems and the aggravation is not worth it! You will feel much better having gone through it, and knowing what has been done to it. Plus you can take pics, so us here at the forum can follow along!
I cannot wait to hear what is going on inside this engine???? You can buy great rebuild kits from Summit.

Joemac8

67 tripower, "Pull it and rebuild it"? DO you mean the heads or the engine? Can you tell me how can I contact Summitt? Do they have a web site?

Thanks, Joe

67tripwr

Joe, I would do the whole engine! How many miles are on the engine if you know? I have always reguilt all my engines with the best parts from here: www.summitracing.com You will get great service and parts selection! It sounds to me, that there is enought crap going on to justify it! I can advise on what to buy if you want.

Joemac8

67 tripwr, Please let me know what you would buy. You are probably right. If I rebuild I will know what is in there and what shape it is in.

67tripwr

What is great about Summit, is they can advise as well! First get the catalog, order it online. Page 110 shows the sealed power rebuild kits for the 327. The first thing to do is get the engine out, and have it gone through by a good machine shop. You really need to wait, to see what your bore sizes are before ordering anything. You could build it back to factory specs, or go even further! How does your engine look?
filthy, clean, painted???? How many miles on the engine???? Only buy forged pistons, well that is all they list anyway. What you can do, is remove the heads, and check cylider wear that way. If you can catch a fingernail on the upper lip of the cylinder walls, a rebuild would surley be advised!

Joemac8

The engine has 86,000 miles on it and looks like the day it left the factory as does the rest of the car.

67tripwr

Dig In! Your only going to improve a bad situation.

Seaside63

Oh man... Be very, very careful if you take that engine to any machine shop.

I have read horror stories about people that had their engines "decked" against their specific instructions not to.

Decking is where they machine off a layer of material from the top of the engine where the heads mate to the block.

Decking scrapes off the original factory number stampings and is destroys the famous "broach marks" that judges look for.

Without the factory broach marks and stampings, your engine will lose all value and your car wil be worth half its price and many people will declare it a fake car.

Of course these people that do the declaring are not licensed nor authorized and have no board nor governing body to make such declarations. They make daily declarations that affect the value of large investment portfolios yet there is no audit or control holding them responsible.

Besides all that, just DON'T let the machine shop deck your block.

Allcoupedup

Joe,
If you do go the rebuild route, liek others have mentioned, you need to be very careful. Selecting a good machine shop is not an easy thing.

On another note, an engine rebuild project is a wonderful project. I had a decent running 327/??? mysterm motor in my '65 but it always bugged me I didn't know what was going on inside - had no idea how many miles on the motor so..... I pulled it an rebuilt it - top to bottom. Prior to doing this I had never removed a head, intake, oil pan, carburetor, etc.... Add together a good book or two and the experience on this board and you'll have no problem building your engine.

My motor had worn camshaft lobes, worn bearings, still had the nylon faced camshaft gear... someone had done a quickie re-ring and bearing rebuild. Probably could have driven it another 25,000 miles but the mystery was killing me.

Not saying this is the way to go.... yet - leakdown test is needed. But.... if you go the rebuild route you can borrow my cherry picker, engine stand, and whatever else I have sitting around. The rest of the tools can be borrowed (for free) from Autozone.

Now I can spin my motor to 6500 all day and not worry about it exploding and when I hear a little noise I know exactly what's going on because I understand how an engine works inside and out. Don't have to worry about detonation, distributor curves, bearing clearances, sealer on bolts.... less worries these days.

Like plasticman mentioned .... you could simply need a head job. As the valve guides go, oil gets pulled into the bowls and a black sludge mess builds up on the back of the intake valves and forms a cone rather than a normal very quick neck to stem transition. This kills airflow and robs power.

good luck.

Nicky71

Joe,
Sorry to hear of your troubles, especially now at the beginning of the summer. I agree that the best thing to do would be to pull the engine and go through it, or put it to the side and replace with a crate motor (which is what I will be doing this winter if I keep my 67). On a positive note, there are quite a few of us C1/C2 guys in the Chicago area and I'm sure we could get a crew together to assist in the engine pull if you would like

Joemac8

Well I believe that I have found the (Hopefully only one) problem. The last pushrod over #8 does the hula when you wiggle it and the one next to it is a little loose as well. Next step is pull the heads, get the valves redone and hopefully only need a few sleves to repair the loose rods.

Keep your fingers crossed!

Allcoupedup

Joe,
You may want to take your heads to Plasticman first so he can check them over to make sure a shop doesn't take you for a ride. He is also an excellent teacher and you will understand how the heads work (if you don't already).

Regards,
Brian

Seaside63

I fear that you will be very sad by what you find when you pull the heads.

Low compression, fouled plugs, water in the oil, loose push rods...

Could be you dropped a valve and put a hole in the piston. Have you checked the valve springs to make sure none of them is broken?

I'm wondering where the water came from. I still guess cracked head, but hopefully it's a leaking head gasket or intake gasket.

I've never heard of any kind of sleeve to repair loose push rods.

Keep us posted.

Joemac8

I called the Chevy Shop on Cicero in the city and they said it would be $140 labor plus $15 per sleeve. They have done work for other members of my club and I have heard no complaints.

I'll keep my fingers, toes and eyes crossed!

Plasticman

Joe,

I think you are talking apples and donuts. The pushrods are not sleeved, but the valve stem guides are!

I would recommend that you use phospher bronze replacement guides, rather than the cast iron replacement guides. And new valves are a must. Go the Stainless Steel route with the valves, and make sure the stems are polished or chromed, so that they don't tear up the brand new guides. The head surface will probably need to be milled (to return it to a flat condition for good head gasket seal). Rarely does the block need to be resurfaced, and as stated above, to do so means removal of the all important original numbers and broach marks. While your in there, new valve springs and rockers/***** are in order.

Then you might as well take apart the bottom end, and replace the bearings and piston rings, and then the oil pump. Then there is the cam and timing chain/sprockets. This is called mission creep! But, it is the best way to take care of everything at once, since you really don't know what the condition is of anything (until taken apart and checked - then it is like spark plugs, as long as it is apart, might as well replace with new ones!). That is one reason the crate engines are so popular! All the wear items get taken care of at one time.

Brian - Thanks for the good words!

Good luck,
Plasticman