Norm_427

Here are some ETs that car magazines reported from their road tests:

1. Motor Trend tested a 1964 model 327 / 375 hp fuel injected with 4.11 gears and turned a 14.2 @100
2. Road & Track, 1964 model 327 / 300 hp automatic did a 15.2 e.t.
3. Car and Driver, 1965 model 327 / 350 hp and 3.36 gears got 14.9
4. Road & Track tested a 1965 model 396 / 425 hp with 3.70 gears and complained about wheel spin and turned a 14.1
5. Motor Trend, 1967 model 427 / 435 hp with 3.55 gears did 13.8 @ 104 mph.
6. Car and Driver 1967 model 427 / 435 hp got 13.6 @ 105.
EDIT:
7. C&D, R&T and MT did 4 tests on 1966 and 1967 427 / 425 hp and the average of those were 13.53 @ 107.6 mph.
8. Car and Driver 1968 model 427 / 400 hp did 14.1 @ 102
9. Car and Driver 1971 model (GM mandated lowered compression beginning with this year) 350 LT1 making 330 hp with a 4 speed and 3.70 gears hustled down the strip at a 14.57 @ 100.55
10. Car and Driver 1971 model LS6 solid lifter 454 / 425 hp with double-disc clutch & 4-speed turned a 13.8 at 104.65 with 3.36 gears.
EDIT: #11. See post later in this thread re the L88.
11. Car Life, model 1969 L88 427 / 430 hp, 3.36 gears, automatic, 14.101 @ 106.89 and top speed of 151 mph.

I gathered most of this info from the book, "Corvette", by Lyons and Katz and published by Metrobooks and from www.corvetteactioncenter.com.

bj33813

Interesting..so why do they fetch such RIDICULOUS $$ at the auctions , when it appears a C6 will whomp their *** ?

haljensen

IMHO; Those times are probably more about tire technology, suspension and HP/TQ curves than about power.

Our run flats have nearly the traction of a 60's drag tire. Bias-ply belted tires and/or early radials that had rubber compounds designed for wear instead of traction.

You think we have wheel hop now? Did anybody else here drive an early IRS 'Vette?

HP ratings; Gross vs. net and the "rated" HP race going on at the time.

HP/TQ curves were very peaky, the '69 Z28 would stall and bog if you tried a launch below 4,000 RPM, the the HP/TQ off idle was terrible.

Mez

I had a 1971 Convertable with the base 350 ci engine, originally 270 hp engine, TH400, 3.36 gears, with a mild Isky cam turned 14.5 sec at 95 mph. I estimated the engine with the cam made about 300 hp. The tires were Goodyear Eagle 225/70-15 radials. It was a cool day and I did not have a problem with traction.

At the same event, our club had a 1991 ZR1 that turned a 12.8 at 110 mph. Another member brought his Blooming Gold 1969 L88 Coupe. The engine was 100% stock but on this day, he had bolted on Hooker side exhaust open headers, 8" slicks, and 4.11 gears. He turned 11.8 at 122 mph. There was a match race between the ZR1 and the L88 and the L88 rocketed away from the starting line with the 8 inch slicks and was GONE! Really surprised how much HP the L88 made over the ZR1.

Norm_427

Only 216 L88s were made from 1967 through 1969 and not ever put on the official option list -- it was a race engine. Of the 90,268 Corvettes sold from 1967 through 1969 that's only .00239 of total production. That race engine is estimated to have made around 550 to 570 gross SAE HP. Even with that, look at the ET by Car Life in the following article (ET was almost identical to 2 other car mags that year, R&T and Hot Rod). The L88 in those 3 tests had the disadvantage of having a 3 speed Turbo hydromatic.

Here's an interesting article about the extremely rare L88.

"Corvette Fever"
1969 L88 Corvette
"Not For The Faint Of Heart"

By Michael Johnson
Photography: Marty McHugh, Tom Shaw

"This song and dance was created by Chevrolet back in 1967 when the L88 first saw the light of day. You see, the L88 was never intended to be driven down Main Street, USA. It idled like the throttle was stuck open and it had a stiff ride, but Chevrolet knew the L88 Corvette had these tendencies and did everything they could to make sure these cars made it into the right hands. The L88 was not listed among the available options, and even if you wanted one, it would easily remove an extra $1,000 from your wallet. Chevrolet even rated its horsepower level at 5 less than the 435 horsepower L71 427 to discourage buyers, thinking the L71 would be the hot ticket. Even so, they couldn't control the publicity the L88 would garner on the tracks of America. By 1969, the L88 was the "hot thing to have," according to (and much to the chagrin of) the legen-dary Zora Arkus-Duntov. Duntov knew that most of the people who purchased L88s were clueless about exactly what they were, and furthermore, didn't know how to take care of these beasts.

"The let's-not-put-it-on-the-option-sheet game did keep production numbers down for the L88 Corvette, though. There were only 20 L88s in the 1967 model run. That number increased to 80 for 1968 and peaked in its final year of production in 1969, at 116. If you were lucky enough and rich enough to own one of these beasts, you had the world by the tail. You could show just about anything how good the back of a Corvette looks. The only competition to the L88 came in the form of A/C-bodied, 427-powered Cobras. One L88 owner reported never losing a single drag race to anything, including the formidable Cobra, and had recorded a best quarter-mile ET of 11.14 at 123 mph. Car Life couldn't quite match that number for its June 1969 issue. Their test L88 could only muster a 14.101 at 106.89 mph; and judging by the mph, it looks like the L88 imposed its will on those poor little F70 tires. If set up right (gears, sticky tires, headers and sidepipes), the L88 would annihilate anything in its path. Even though handicapped with 3.36 gears and an automatic (1 of 17 built with an automatic), the L88 did shine for Car Life by posting a top speed of 151 mph. The editors pointed out that the car could have gone faster if pushed to the very edge, but they chose to keep it safe."

SHOOTER 49

They were not that quick ,but then again neither were all the ''muscle'' cars when stock. They felt quicker because of squirrly handling and el crappo tires that would break loose. I used to run my GT500KR IN C-pure stock and never was beaten by a Vette in my class and I was turning 14.1/14.2 with a c6 auto. A friend of mine hit 13.99 with a 69 GT500 4 SPEED and he was ''DE MAN''. Back then the Vettes were not much feared--it was those 440 6 packs. The good old days is really somewhat of a myth when we have stock A4 C6'S capable of turning in the high 12's with little fuss.

Arthur6

Yes...

3car5

It has little to do with performance and much more to do with lower production numbers and desirability to reach back in time by the baby boomers. A lot of people grew up seeing the Vettes immortalized in songs by the Beach Boys, Jan and Dean, etc, as well as movies which further created the mystique. A lot of the design elements in the C6 were a tribute to the mid-year vettes such as the fender and rear quarter style lines carrying back and forward into the doors. Finally, with only 5 years of production for the mid year vettes, the number available is very low.
My C6 will kick my big block 66 any day of the week, but while my C6 continues to depreciate at an alarming rate, my mid year continues to be worth more and more. Clearly the C6 is much smoother, but there is no substitute for cruising in the mid year which recieves universal appreciation by most everyone, even those that have no concept of Corvette history. Here's to the not so good old days!

shopdog

Indeed, if the A/C compressor kicked in at idle, it'd stall the engine. (Yes, a few '69 Z28s had A/C.) To take off gently from a stoplight on the street, you had to rev to 2200 RPM and slip the clutch like mad to avoid stalling it. But once it came on the cam it was wild.

The big blocks were easier to drive on the street. Even with fairly radical cams, they had enough torque off idle to get rolling without abusing the clutch. But they got less than 10 MPG.

Modern computerized engine controls are amazing. They allow an engine to make nearly as much power as the radically cammed hugely carbed engines of the late '60s while keeping the newer engines easy to drive on the street and gentle on a gallon of gas. Compared to the old engines, the torque curve of a LS2 is flat as a board. The new engines are emissions legal too, while the old engines belched huge amounts of pollution out of their engines.

Tires are much better too. Today's tires can put the power to the pavement without going up in smoke the way the old tires did. This is probably the major factor that allows modern cars to dip into the 12s while older cars making about the same power were running in the 14s.

Mez

I also raced against the L88 and have a time slip showing my time against him so I know he ran 11.8 at 122 mph. The open headers and the 8" slicks make a huge difference. The open headers were reported to add 50 hp over stock to about 550 fly wheel hp. The slicks obviously helped him launch as we saw when he ran heads-up agains the my friends ZR1. I have this race on tape somewhere.....

I don't want to give out the owner's name, but his 1969 L88 is fully documented and a triple crown NCRS winning show car. The owner was judge at Bloomington Gold, has restored a number of Bloomington Gold winning Corvettes, and known amoung the Corvette restoration community.

I am pretty sure the L88's were listed as an option on the Corvettes but availablity was very limited.

Norm_427

I think the tires most certainly affect the ET, but the trap speed is less affected by the tires and is a more true indication of HP generated. And top speed is mostly HP (some aerodynamics, yes) when comparing 60's Vettes to C6s.

There are a lot of Urban Legends floating around in our culture. I think it says something about human nature and the way we look at the past. I think the magazine writers tend to take literary freedom in heaping accolades on what they know is an urban legend. For the younger Vette guys who didn't have the privilege of growing up with the cars from 1963 - 1970, I wanted to put down a few facts to dispell the rumors of yesteryear.

While it's true that the older Vettes -- as compared to the C6 -- aren't as fast in acceleration and top speed, don't stop and corner as well, and they aren't as fuel effecient, comfortable, roomy or reliable and maintenance free as the C6, etc., -- I'd still love to have that beautiful yellow '66 big block of 3car5's! It hurts to see that beautiful '66 in his garage because it reminds me of one of the stupidest decisions in my life -- I passed up buying a 67 big block, 4 barrel, 390 hp, 4 speed, painted in maroon -- and get this: I bought a new 1968 MGB instead, to save a few hundred dollars!! ouch

I would just own that beautiful 1960s era car for reasons other than performance.

robvuk

I'd like to say that I don't believe that an L88 did an 11.18 in stock form. Some people have a distorted view of what they consider "stock". I grew up in that era and was a regular at one of the most popular dragstrips of the time. I rarely if ever, saw Corvettes there. And when they were there, they were running 14's like everybody else. I know, the L88 is rare, but I don't even remember ever hearing about it until years later. The proof is in the MPH of the list at the top. You have to do 120+ to get low 11's, even with the street tires of the day. Your ET might suck but you should still be able to get a good MPH.

I had a 69 Roadrunner modded with heads, cam, headers, pistons, gears and drag slicks. I ran mostly low 12's with a single 4 barrel and when I put a tunnelram manifold with dual Hollies, I finally got into the 11.8x's. I was the $nit with those ET's. Like someone else mentioned, the MPH is the telltale. None of those cars, the L88 included, could do 120mph+ in "stock" form. Tires were definitely inferior back then compared to what we have now but I'm talking about wrinklewall dragslicks. I believe that those were every bit as good or better than any "street tire" that comes on today's cars. Certainly not as good as today's drag radial but as good or better than anything else.

Back in those days the HP was measured with no accessories and open exhaust. So even if they were grosslly under rated, they still don't stack up with today's Vettes. BIG difference.

Denney

Interesting that the 1966 Corvette 427/425hp, 3.36 rear, #'s weren't listed, according to Car & Driver in 11/65 they listed it as running 12.8 @ 112 mph...

Link:
http://www.musclecarclub.com/musclec...s-50fast.shtml

Marks69BB

Not fair! I read that article. The white L88 they tested was totally stock with crappy polyglass belted tires of the day, inefficient undercar factory exhaust with no headers, wrong 3.36 gears, slushbox, and also the crappy editor/driver in this case!

If you took a 4 spd with 4.11s and the factory optional Kustom sidepipes (prerequisite to the hookers) to let that BB breath, you're talking 11s for sure with an L88.

Also, someone did a comparo between a Z06 and an M22 4 spd L88 a few years ago and the L88 dusted it. I wish I could remember which mag.

SBR

I know the person that owns that car and still owns it today! He told me about the race and even said that he was granny shifting the car and knew that it could easily have gone quicker if pushed harder.

Marks69BB

One other item of note - A factory 1969 ZL1 (which is an L88 with aluminum block and heads) with 4.88 gears turned a 10.9@132mph with slicks when GM tested it. This is faster than any C5 or C6 Z06. Read about it here:

http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/frame...hp&carnum=1434

RGGregory

With all due respect, E.T. has no bearing on why 99.9% of us own a midyear, or does it contribute to a given sale price. All of us know that if we wanted to go faster and hang tighter, we could build the hell out of an engine and a suspension. The midyears are about the other sensations that you can get out a great, but "pedestrian" c5 or c6 (and I have an 02 Z06 as well as a 65 396/425 on which to base my opinion). It's about sound, feel, sight (the lines of a the midyear even get major complements out of my dyed-in-the-wool, Prius-driving, tree-hugger, Ralph Nader-loving, teacher friends.

I love my 06, but the hood don't rock and the pipes don't roar like the 396.

RGGregory

One cause would be the driver, set up, track conditions, etc. Also, I believe (from research and seat-of-pants) that the 66 427/425 (450) was the fastest midyear except the L88. I had the pleasure to take a more-or-less stock one down the strip at NE Dragway in the early ninety's - 4.11's and street slicks. Turned a 12.11.

GCD1962

With headers and 7" slicks, most high h.p. early 60s typically ran around 13.60 and 108-110 mph

Formula Outlaw

Comparing the mid years to the new models is really apples and oranges. Today's tire technology, sizes available and mountable, and the six speed trannys really give an unfair advantage to the new models. Out of the hole the mid years are just at too much of a disadvantae. However, once you get them rolling, those disadvantages seem to evaporate.

The mid years are more like a life form. Sitting at a stop light, they just feel like they are alive. Compared to todays offerings they are as subtle as a wrecking ball.

No doubt the new Z06 is one hell of a ride, smoked the Vipers backside by almost half a second in the quarter ( 11.8 to 12.2) and bang for the buck is an incredible value.

But it just ain't the same.....

I have a 65' 327/365 matching numbers Rally Red coupe. In today's world you just can't duplicate that sound and feel. And EVERYBODY acknowledges you. Even elderly couples in a Lexus SUV.....