67HEAVEN

During the disassembly of our '67, we've found truth behind the suggestion that you carefully record the number of shims in various locations around the body. This car has never been hit.

For instance, passenger door upper hinge (0 shims); lower hinge (3 shims); driver door upper (1 shim); lower (2 shims)

Rear bumper brackets, passenger outer (O shims) passenger inner (3 shims); driver outer (0 shims); driver inner (2 shims)

Body mounts - 8 positions on 1967 coupe - won't know until the body lift (scheduled for Sep. 15th)

Man, were these bodies and/or frames crooked. Must have been to need this much shimming. :smash: :smash:

And, most every body-mount and bumper bracket bolt has broken off due to rust (even after using penetrating oil)

Everything's going to be stainless steel when completed!!!! :cheers:

Any info provided on bolt ratings would be appreciated....markings, hardness, etc. Don't know anything about it.

Top_Notch

I don't know much, but here are 2 obvious suggestions.

1) Note the grade of bolt that came off.

2) . When contemplating replacing OEM fasteners with stainless steel, remember that common stainless steel does not have the strength of common alloy steels and should not be used for critical, highly stressed applications. The stainless steel also has higher friction than steel does which gives less preload at the same torque. When in doubt, keep the OEM steel stuff for critical applications.

MasterDave

The frames are not bent or uneven. What IS different on these ' glas cars is the condition of the exterior of the lower body. GM did a great job with the outer body panels but paid less attention to the body mount or underside of the body area. They just used shims when setting the body up for level. No two Vettes were quite the same as far as area thickness or evenness goes. It's pretty important then to make sure you use the same amount of shims at each location. You simply use masking tape to hold them on and push your bolt right thru the tape. That's how they did it. Have fun... :cheers: Mine is a vert and I had to sawzall the bolts that were above the gas tank. :mad Lotsa us have been thru this and we will help you out for sure. :cool:

kahuner

67Heaven;

I'm trying to learn from your post and I didn't realize that the bumpers are shimmed. You mentioned shims in each of the rear bumpers, but not the front. I have one front bumper that's not square with the world. Were your's shimmed? I'm now hoping that maybe that's All that's wrong with mine.

An informative post, thanks. :seeya

67HEAVEN

quote:
1) Note the grade of bolt that came off.

2) . When contemplating replacing OEM fasteners with stainless steel, remember that common stainless steel does not have the strength of common alloy steels and should not be used for critical, highly stressed applications. The stainless steel also has higher friction than steel does which gives less preload at the same torque. When in doubt, keep the OEM steel stuff for critical applications.
________________________________________ ____

We're keeping all hardware in labelled poly-bags (even the broken bolts, etc.) for reference.

Top_Notch, do you know what the markings look like and their interpretation?

Has anyone here used anything but original-type alloy steel bolts for things like body mounts, bumper bolts, etc.?

Thanks people! :seeya

67HEAVEN

Hi Kahuner,

My front bumper was removed in 1969 (I still have it though).

Back when I was 22 years old and stupid (just a little less stupid now), front bumpers were simply a weighty nuisance and got in the way of quicker E.T.s.
After all, you couldn't use them to jack the car up, so what good were they anyway? :crazy: :lol:
Needless to say, if I even noticed shims at that time, I probably just threw them over my shoulder.....after all, at 22 there's no tomorrow, right? :lol:



[Modified by 67HEAVEN, 2:04 PM 9/6/2001]

INMYBLOOD

http://www.americanfastener.com/techref/grade.htm

Here is some information on bolts. A bolts strengths or qualities are "grades" in numbers not in letters. Plenty of good advice already given. Records and pictures the car dissassemblers uhhhh I mean the car reassemblers friend :yesnod:

RGGregory

Hi,

If you really want to go stainless for critical fasteners you'll likely need to look into more exotic (translation $$$$) stainless steels such as 17-7 Precipitation Hardenable (PH) or 17-4 PH, which do have higher tensile properties than your typical 300 or 400 series stainless steels. Some 300 series, such as 316L have higher material properties, but not those approaching a Grade 8 bolt (maybe Grade 5). You might want to try either McMaster Carr or Granger to see if they have stock sizes you may need (you'll need to buy in quantity). You could also try a local machine design shop or marine yard that uses stainless. This is going to be expensive. Something else to take into consideration is that the higher the strength a material is, the lower it's fracture toughness and ductility typically is. This is something to consider in anything that is impact or cyclically loaded. Plain carbon steels typically have better toughness properties for a given tensile strength or yield strength, mostly due to the difference in alloying elements required (low carbon steels have very small percentages of carbon, phosphorus, etc), but stainless steels by nature are more highly alloyed (chrominum, nickel, etc) and more sensitive. Finally, stainless steel is not corrosion proof. In fact, crevice corrision in highly loaded fasteners can fail a stainless part quicker than a plain carbon steel component subjected to galvanic corrosion, etc. That said, I don't believe crevice corrosion would be a big issue in automotive applications.

Bottom line - stainless isn't really required nor cost-effective if you keep your ride clean and well maintained.

Finally - if you want to educate yourself on bolt markings, grades, ASTM and SAE equivalents - go to Borders or Barnes & Noble and look for the Machine Design Handbook (it about 6 inches high by 4 inches deep by 3 inches thick). It has all this information and more on gears, etc. You may want to look at any machine design textbooks in this section as well. .

Good luck,

Bob


[Modified by RGGregory, 9:13 PM 9/5/2001]

67HEAVEN

Excellent response from everyone. I'm taking all the advice into consideration.

Thanks very much!

magicv8

The only bolts I haven't replaced with common stainless fasteners are: brake caliper mounting, BB differential yoke, rear spindle flange, rear spring, starter, oil pan (I would if I could find some), motor mount, and sway bar. The convertible top, interior, ehhaust, body, engine manifolds, water pump were all changed to SS years ago. What a joy the car is to work on now. No matter how many miles I drive through the crud - the exhaust line comes out in 20 minutes and goes back in just as fast. So do the shocks, axles, exhaust manifolds - read the Power Tour story on my homepage- I replaced the exhaust manifold gasket on my A-C car in a motel parking lot in Albuquerque - and the clock only lost 21 minutes, between battery disconnect and reconnect (necessitated by alternator and bracket removal).

kahuner

Magicmachines;

Everytime I read one of your posts, I'm amazed at how familar you are with just about every R & R procedure! Not to mention the resourcefulness with which you approach every task.

Just wanted you to know that to some of us, you're the equivilent to a security blanket!:yesnod: :cheers: :cool:

Grey Ghost

Kahuner - I've heard from folks that completed frame-off restorations. Lots of them said: "You build the car, around the bumpers." Meaning, you adjust the car to the bumpers, instead of the bumpers to the car....

396 RAT

RGGregory is right, For some applications SS is fine,
But in others it is not. Most SS is soft, period.
The more corrosion resistant it is - the softer it becomes.
Just add nickel. In my world 316 is about the most common.
Ever notice how some SS is magnetic (carbon content), and other SS is not?
And I think you are being generous comparing 316 to a grade 5 bolt.
For a real eye opener go to a torque chart. (don't have one on line)
But the yield strength will surprise you, and some SS has the same torque
requirements as Alum.
I really like SS, but you cant use it everywhere.
And when you do use it, you should coat the threads with
some type of nickel based neversieze, torqueing SS dry can cause galling.
I would be careful replacing susp. bolting with SS.
Just my 2...........

Tom454

I use stainless because I hate rust... and rusty bolts look ugly. Anyhow, aside from body fasteners, ARP makes stainless for engines- which is, I would guess, a "critical" application. ARP has a lot more in their catalog than Summit or Jegs or anyone else lists. If you use stainless, you just have to be aware of the grade you are using.

67HEAVEN

Tom454,

Thanks for the reference to ARP. They have an interesting website that includes bulk-pack stainless steel fasteners http://www.arp-bolts.com/media/pdf_files/BF_60-64.pdf and engine dress-up kits http://www.arp-bolts.com/pages/catalog/catalog.html with many products available in black oxide as well as Stainless 300.

Hmmmmmm!

Tom454

You're welcome... ARP is like a candy store for me... I can't resist. I even bought polished stainless Holley fuel bowl bolts for the TriPower setup I'm about to drop on my 454. Awesome stuff.

67HEAVEN

Well done, Patrick! :yesnod: :yesnod: