Dual air meter FI pictures
09-10-2006, 07:28 PM
#21
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Dual-Air F.I. I saw in the mid 60's
When I was racing my 66/427 in club events in the New England area in 1966/67/68 two guys from Mass we're racing a small-block Corvette with this same setup. Their names were Ken Duclose and Ken Habbler (spelling may be incorrect). They both raced a verity of Corvette's and sometimes a Corba. They often raced with the Corvettes of Ma. Club.
I think they also raced SCCA.
Joe
I think they also raced SCCA.
Joe
08-24-2020, 11:51 AM
#22
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I was not familiar with the Dual Air Meter set up for the Rochester FI Units..... Learned a bit about them last Friday...... 
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08-24-2020, 02:01 PM
#23
Melting Slicks
Great Video, thanks for posting it. I have seen that car run many times at Seattle International Raceway (now Pacific International Raceways) and it is still one of my favorite race cars of all time.
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jerry gollnick (08-25-2020)
08-24-2020, 05:03 PM
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Klaus, did you ever construct a dual air meter FI for yourself?
08-24-2020, 11:45 PM
#25
Melting Slicks
Hi Jim;
No I haven't but have entertained the idea for sure. I haven't had as much time since I retired!! Don't ask, I can't explain it except that I have a small farm an enough projects to last several lifetimes. Could happen though, I'm not ruling it out, would be fun.
No I haven't but have entertained the idea for sure. I haven't had as much time since I retired!! Don't ask, I can't explain it except that I have a small farm an enough projects to last several lifetimes. Could happen though, I'm not ruling it out, would be fun.
08-25-2020, 12:26 AM
#26
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Wes,
From what FI knowledge I have gained over the years, the primary limiting factor to the early FI units (57-65) was air intake. Adding a second air meter, theoretically, would double air flow (of course assuming the plenum could also flow the added air). I have a HEALTHY SB400 in my 56, and it is a rocket from 2000-5300rpm. By about 5500, it is falling off and at 6000 it is straining for air. There is no question in my mind that my 400/FI could benefit from a second air meter. Although, I don't really need that much more air, because I seldom push it beyond 5000. The car has a 3.08 rear and the 406 cubic inches will easily turn a 3.08 gear, even uphill out of the hole. So, from stop to 5000 and then a hard power shift to 2nd, and its gone! (but it would be nice to go up to 6500 more easily)
The person that owns the early unit told me that the fuel meter had to have some special modification done to it (in the area of the main fuel valve). Also, I have a drawing given to me by John Eyestone years ago that shows the necessary modification to be done to the two types of fuel valves for use with a dual air meter FI unit.
The person who owns the early unit that's on the SRII told me who did the fuel meter modification on his unit (forget his name). I called him about the mod to the fuel meter and he confirmed that he knew what to do-----------------but he would NOT give me ANY information about exactly what had to be done. From the drawing that John Eyestone gave me, I believe I could figure out what and how to do the mod. BUUUUUUUUUUUT, I don't have a second 62 air meter to add to my unit, so, at this time, it really doesn't matter!
As far as driveability goes, well, I don't know because I don't have any personal experience behind a dual air meter equiped car. But if set up properly, it should be just as smooth as a normal FI unit.
I mentioned earlier that if a plenum could handle the added air flow from a second air meter, there should be a noticeable increase in power output.
My plenum is already hogged out for added air flow. I have one of the early finned top plenums that was cut in half by Bill Thomas (maybe in conjunction with Hayden Proffit????), right down the middle between the center fins, severely hogged out, then welded back together. Because so much material was removed from the inside of the plenum, a 283 would probably loose some bottom end torque. But, on my 400, the added displacement seems to adequately overcome any loss.
As I understand, the 57-61 air meters flowed around 550cfm and the 327 (62-65) air meters flowed a bit more, about 600cfm. My FI unit has a 62 air meter on it, thus, theoretically, if a second 62 air meter were added, then that would be about 1200cfm!!!! So, how much engine could 1200cfm support?
From what FI knowledge I have gained over the years, the primary limiting factor to the early FI units (57-65) was air intake. Adding a second air meter, theoretically, would double air flow (of course assuming the plenum could also flow the added air). I have a HEALTHY SB400 in my 56, and it is a rocket from 2000-5300rpm. By about 5500, it is falling off and at 6000 it is straining for air. There is no question in my mind that my 400/FI could benefit from a second air meter. Although, I don't really need that much more air, because I seldom push it beyond 5000. The car has a 3.08 rear and the 406 cubic inches will easily turn a 3.08 gear, even uphill out of the hole. So, from stop to 5000 and then a hard power shift to 2nd, and its gone! (but it would be nice to go up to 6500 more easily)
The person that owns the early unit told me that the fuel meter had to have some special modification done to it (in the area of the main fuel valve). Also, I have a drawing given to me by John Eyestone years ago that shows the necessary modification to be done to the two types of fuel valves for use with a dual air meter FI unit.
The person who owns the early unit that's on the SRII told me who did the fuel meter modification on his unit (forget his name). I called him about the mod to the fuel meter and he confirmed that he knew what to do-----------------but he would NOT give me ANY information about exactly what had to be done. From the drawing that John Eyestone gave me, I believe I could figure out what and how to do the mod. BUUUUUUUUUUUT, I don't have a second 62 air meter to add to my unit, so, at this time, it really doesn't matter!
As far as driveability goes, well, I don't know because I don't have any personal experience behind a dual air meter equiped car. But if set up properly, it should be just as smooth as a normal FI unit.
I mentioned earlier that if a plenum could handle the added air flow from a second air meter, there should be a noticeable increase in power output.
My plenum is already hogged out for added air flow. I have one of the early finned top plenums that was cut in half by Bill Thomas (maybe in conjunction with Hayden Proffit????), right down the middle between the center fins, severely hogged out, then welded back together. Because so much material was removed from the inside of the plenum, a 283 would probably loose some bottom end torque. But, on my 400, the added displacement seems to adequately overcome any loss.
As I understand, the 57-61 air meters flowed around 550cfm and the 327 (62-65) air meters flowed a bit more, about 600cfm. My FI unit has a 62 air meter on it, thus, theoretically, if a second 62 air meter were added, then that would be about 1200cfm!!!! So, how much engine could 1200cfm support?
Last edited by Dan Hampton; 08-25-2020 at 12:27 AM.
08-25-2020, 09:44 AM
#27
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I think you might be referring to Chris Wickersham. He owned a tricked out Devin SS that he vintaged race. I think Rick Mason had him do all the work on his SR-2 FI which, I believe, was a dual meter system. I drove that car extensively through the canyons of Tahoe a number of years ago. Being a 283, the power wasn't much different, as I remember it, from a standard 283 FI unit.
Unfortunately, I cannot post pictures of that unit because the owner does not want them available to the public.I will say that I spend a LOT of time trying to sort it out and fabricate some changes which I thought would be an improvement. The owner had gone to several of the nationally known FI gurus and none of them would touch it. The owner was referred to me by one of the well know FI guys and I agreed to give it my best. I guess it's working today.
Last edited by DZAUTO; 08-25-2020 at 09:46 AM.
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08-25-2020, 10:52 AM
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I think you might be referring to Chris Wickersham. He owned a tricked out Devin SS that he vintaged race. I think Rick Mason had him do all the work on his SR-2 FI which, I believe, was a dual meter system. I drove that car extensively through the canyons of Tahoe a number of years ago. Being a 283, the power wasn't much different, as I remember it, from a standard 283 FI unit.
My '60's 283 has my home grown FI which flows 700 CFM (measured) with a single air meter and it's more than adequate.
Last edited by jim lockwood; 08-25-2020 at 12:13 PM.
08-25-2020, 11:21 AM
#29
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When I hear of someone about to retire, I *always* warn them to get all their projects done first because after they retire they won't have as much free time.
Pre-retirees look at me like I have a disease. Post-retirees nod their heads knowingly.
08-25-2020, 11:49 AM
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Larry Webb, who was in the video I posted with the Cheetah, went through the distributor for our car last Friday, as we were dealing with some timing issues..... The shop he did the work at is run by a friend of mine. When I went to pick it up, Larry was gone, but my friend was telling me about some of the other things he and Larry do work on, which includes some of these dual air meter set ups......
I enjoy hearing about those who have worked to come up with performance improvements and innovations......
I enjoy hearing about those who have worked to come up with performance improvements and innovations......
08-25-2020, 12:43 PM
#31
Yes, Larry Webb was the feature speaker in the you-tube video, what a gentleman. He is located here in the Seattle area and is renowned for his abilities. He has overhauled the FI's on both my 57 and 61. I consider it a privilege to know him, not to mention that he'll work on my equipment... Al
08-25-2020, 09:11 PM
#32
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I will say one thing, Jim, that SR 2 was one hell of a lot of fun to drive. Very nimble and responsive. It had Porsche seats. Very roomy and comfortable. Rich is a very generous person and a true enthusiast. One of the nicest guys that ever visited the hobby. He is doing well in Carson City. I spoke with him the other day. He is getting a little perturbed from not receiving the new Corvette. His collection has been sold. He told me that he misses the 427 Cobra Prototype (Ken Miles Flip-Top). He had some nice iron in that collection. I also drove his Cobra "DragonSnake". That was a wild ride. It had some real cooling issues but was really quick.
08-26-2020, 11:30 AM
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I will say one thing, Jim, that SR 2 was one hell of a lot of fun to drive. Very nimble and responsive. It had Porsche seats. Very roomy and comfortable. Rich is a very generous person and a true enthusiast. One of the nicest guys that ever visited the hobby. He is doing well in Carson City. I spoke with him the other day. He is getting a little perturbed from not receiving the new Corvette. His collection has been sold. He told me that he misses the 427 Cobra Prototype (Ken Miles Flip-Top). He had some nice iron in that collection. I also drove his Cobra "DragonSnake". That was a wild ride. It had some real cooling issues but was really quick.
Related to the SR2, a dim memory is telling me the current custodian has removed the dual air meter FI. Given how well sorted it was, I can't imagine why anyone would do that.
08-26-2020, 11:58 AM
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Related to the SR2, a dim memory is telling me the current custodian has removed the dual air meter FI. Given how well sorted it was, I can't imagine why anyone would do that.
Related to the SR2, a dim memory is telling me the current custodian has removed the dual air meter FI. Given how well sorted it was, I can't imagine why anyone would do that.
08-26-2020, 12:02 PM
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Many years ago, I contacted Rich about his dual air meter setup (because I wanted to build one for the SB400 in the 56). He explained to me about Chris Wickersham doing the fine tuning to the unit (mainly on the fuel meter side), and he sent me a lot of pictures of the unit. I can post them if anyone is interested.
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08-27-2020, 07:54 AM
#36
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That is correct. The person(s) that bought Rich's SR2 did a cosmetic restoration, removed the dual air meter and installed a single air meter FI unit. I was finally able to contact the (then) current owner and inquired why the dual air meter unit was removed. I was basically told that was the way it was originally built, and I expressed that Rich had routinely vintage raced it and did very well with the dual air meter unit and that was the way the car was best recognized. Their response was NOT pleasant.
08-27-2020, 03:13 PM
#37
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Many years ago, I contacted Rich about his dual air meter setup (because I wanted to build one for the SB400 in the 56). He explained to me about Chris Wickersham doing the fine tuning to the unit (mainly on the fuel meter side), and he sent me a lot of pictures of the unit. I can post them if anyone is interested.
08-27-2020, 04:22 PM
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I'd love to see the pic's, I have a dual air meter unit I got off E-bay many years ago, which I can post pic's of in return. Feel free to PM me if you'd like at HughesLT1@yahoo.com
Several years ago, when I was wanting to build a dual air meter unit for the 400 in our 56, I contacted Rich and he sent these pictures to me. This is the dual air meter unit which was on Rich Mason's SR2 when he owned it (it's been removed).
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08-27-2020, 04:37 PM
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A little eye candy. In the garage pic, the yellow Cobra DragonSnake can be seen down the row. Next to it, is the Crown Jewel: the 427 Cobra Prototype aka Ken Miles' "Flip Top".
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08-31-2020, 09:05 AM
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Thanks for sending these Tom, nicely done, I sent you some pic's via PM mail and I'd post them here, but I can't figure out how to attach them.