big block vs. small block radiator
10-28-2006, 08:49 PM
#1
Instructor
Thread Starter
big block vs. small block radiator
can anyone tell me if there is a difference in the overall size of the big block radiator vs. a small block. i took my aftermarket radiator out of my 65 396 roadster to replace it with an original. a gentelman tried to install my old radiator in his 64 and said its 2 inches too long. my core support is unaltered. any suggestions.
10-28-2006, 10:52 PM
#3
Le Mans Master
Radiator supports are different for big and small block radiators.
Big block radiator doesn't use the locating pins like a small block. The radiator is supported at the bottom by two "U" type mounts located farther apart than the small block pins. Also mounts in two "U" type mounts at the top. This is not a direct bolt in switch between the two radiators in the same vehicle.
Rich
Big block radiator doesn't use the locating pins like a small block. The radiator is supported at the bottom by two "U" type mounts located farther apart than the small block pins. Also mounts in two "U" type mounts at the top. This is not a direct bolt in switch between the two radiators in the same vehicle.
Rich
10-28-2006, 11:30 PM
#4
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Testaduro
I'm the gentleman who bought your 65 396 radiator (not 327 as advertised). ctjackster in the thread above is exactly correct on all points. This radiator will not work in a stock 327 setup. Please contact me asap to resolve this problem.
Thanks
I'm the gentleman who bought your 65 396 radiator (not 327 as advertised). ctjackster in the thread above is exactly correct on all points. This radiator will not work in a stock 327 setup. Please contact me asap to resolve this problem.
Thanks
10-29-2006, 08:44 AM
#5
Le Mans Master
Originally Posted by wudnwgn
Testaduro
I'm the gentleman who bought your 65 396 radiator (not 327 as advertised). ctjackster in the thread above is exactly correct on all points. This radiator will not work in a stock 327 setup. Please contact me asap to resolve this problem.
Thanks
I'm the gentleman who bought your 65 396 radiator (not 327 as advertised). ctjackster in the thread above is exactly correct on all points. This radiator will not work in a stock 327 setup. Please contact me asap to resolve this problem.
Thanks
You have a couple of options. You can get a small block radiator that will fit your small block support correctly or you can change out the radiator support to a big block support to match with the big block radiator.
The external dimensions of the supports are the same, in that they sit in the same place on the frame and attach through the fender wells in the same places.
Where the supports are radically different is that the small block support sits at a different angle from top to bottom where the radiator attaches and mounts. The big block support sits farther forward at the bottom to allow the installation of the longer radiator, as well as the actual attaching points of the radiator to the support as I mentioned in my earlier post. You also have the issue of radiator hoses when changing from a small block to a big block radiator.
If your radiator support is in good condition your easiest fix is to get a small block radiator and bolt it in.
Rich
10-29-2006, 08:49 AM
#6
Le Mans Master
Originally Posted by BADBIRDCAGE
Radiator supports are different for big and small block radiators.
Big block radiator doesn't use the locating pins like a small block. The radiator is supported at the bottom by two "U" type mounts located farther apart than the small block pins. Also mounts in two "U" type mounts at the top. This is not a direct bolt in switch between the two radiators in the same vehicle.
Rich
Big block radiator doesn't use the locating pins like a small block. The radiator is supported at the bottom by two "U" type mounts located farther apart than the small block pins. Also mounts in two "U" type mounts at the top. This is not a direct bolt in switch between the two radiators in the same vehicle.
Rich
for reference, here is a pic of the 396 core support:
I only know this from a painful Bubba experience in my 65 . . . . .
10-29-2006, 08:56 AM
#7
Le Mans Master
Originally Posted by BADBIRDCAGE
Wudnwgn:
You have a couple of options. You can get a small block radiator that will fit your small block support correctly or you can change out the radiator support to a big block support to match with the big block radiator.
The external dimensions of the supports are the same, in that they sit in the same place on the frame and attach through the fender wells in the same places.
Where the supports are radically different is that the small block support sits at a different angle from top to bottom where the radiator attaches and mounts. The big block support sits farther forward at the bottom to allow the installation of the longer radiator, as well as the actual attaching points of the radiator to the support as I mentioned in my earlier post. You also have the issue of radiator hoses when changing from a small block to a big block radiator.
If your radiator support is in good condition your easiest fix is to get a small block radiator and bolt it in.
Rich
You have a couple of options. You can get a small block radiator that will fit your small block support correctly or you can change out the radiator support to a big block support to match with the big block radiator.
The external dimensions of the supports are the same, in that they sit in the same place on the frame and attach through the fender wells in the same places.
Where the supports are radically different is that the small block support sits at a different angle from top to bottom where the radiator attaches and mounts. The big block support sits farther forward at the bottom to allow the installation of the longer radiator, as well as the actual attaching points of the radiator to the support as I mentioned in my earlier post. You also have the issue of radiator hoses when changing from a small block to a big block radiator.
If your radiator support is in good condition your easiest fix is to get a small block radiator and bolt it in.
Rich
Last edited by ctjackster; 10-29-2006 at 09:01 AM.
10-29-2006, 09:24 AM
#8
Le Mans Master
ctjackster
Looks like my bad for ignorance of the unique 65 BB support. I put a 66/67 BB support into my 63. It bolts in on the frame and sides like I previously mentioned, but uses different radiator mounts. (the "U" brackets.
Slants WAAAY farther forward at the bottom than the original small block support and I had to drill new holes in the fiberglass valence that runs underneath the support to attach the two screws.
My apologies for inaccuracy.
Rich
Looks like my bad for ignorance of the unique 65 BB support. I put a 66/67 BB support into my 63. It bolts in on the frame and sides like I previously mentioned, but uses different radiator mounts. (the "U" brackets.
Slants WAAAY farther forward at the bottom than the original small block support and I had to drill new holes in the fiberglass valence that runs underneath the support to attach the two screws.
My apologies for inaccuracy.
Rich
10-29-2006, 09:43 AM
#9
Le Mans Master
I think your info is the correct info, it's just an odd fact here that the recipient ended up with a rad that was only used for 1/2 of a model year (65 396) plus very limited use in 67, 68 and 69 (L88) . . . suprised to hear you were able to put a "typical" C2 BB core support in your 63 without too much issue, would have thought that to require a little garage engineering . . . 
As I said, I only had to to get informed about 65 396 rads due to a Bubba issue on my 65 - long story short, it came to me with a bottom rad support rail for a 396, which I had no way of knowing until I tried to drop a new "correct" (Dewitts) SB rad in there to replace a brass rad, and it would not "seat" (many swear words followed) and then I looked at the underside of the brass rad I took out and I note the stock "pins" had been wizzed off and relocated - WTF says I - a few live chats with Tom D (hence my membership in the Dewitt's fan club) and then a SB core support was on its way to me (project creep, as always). Then I set about trying to figure out why would some prev owner do that (put a BB bottom rad support rail in there?). First I thought, well he put a BB rad in there - but upon furhter research, determined that the 65 BB rad was wider than the SB rad, so THAT would not have worked, at least as the car came to me. So I decided some lazy-*** just had a BB rail on hand, and perhaps the orig had rusted on my car, and we welded it in without knowing the consequences (the pins) . . .
As I said, I only had to to get informed about 65 396 rads due to a Bubba issue on my 65 - long story short, it came to me with a bottom rad support rail for a 396, which I had no way of knowing until I tried to drop a new "correct" (Dewitts) SB rad in there to replace a brass rad, and it would not "seat" (many swear words followed) and then I looked at the underside of the brass rad I took out and I note the stock "pins" had been wizzed off and relocated - WTF says I - a few live chats with Tom D (hence my membership in the Dewitt's fan club) and then a SB core support was on its way to me (project creep, as always). Then I set about trying to figure out why would some prev owner do that (put a BB bottom rad support rail in there?). First I thought, well he put a BB rad in there - but upon furhter research, determined that the 65 BB rad was wider than the SB rad, so THAT would not have worked, at least as the car came to me. So I decided some lazy-*** just had a BB rail on hand, and perhaps the orig had rusted on my car, and we welded it in without knowing the consequences (the pins) . . .
10-29-2006, 10:02 AM
#10
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And as a side note, after 65 the rad support is at a steeper angle, which engenders lots of swap differences - but the 66-67 bb rads can be mounted in place of sb rads if the lower brackets are welded to the support.
10-29-2006, 11:02 AM
#11
Le Mans Master
[QUOTE=ctjackster]I think your info is the correct info, it's just an odd fact here that the recipient ended up with a rad that was only used for 1/2 of a model year (65 396) plus very limited use in 67, 68 and 69 (L88) . . . suprised to hear you were able to put a "typical" C2 BB core support in your 63 without too much issue, would have thought that to require a little garage engineering . . .
Not too much garage engineering required in my case. The support bolted right in. Had to utilize the supports(rods) from the radiator to the center panel supporting the headlamp rollover motors for a BB car. They are different lengths than the SB suports(rods) but were a direct fit when installed.
I am running TPI and the upper hose for the 87 TPI unit was a direct fit from the thermostat housing to the BB Be Cool radiator. The lower hose is now a two-piece consisting of a SB hose from the water pump and a BB hose from the radiator outlet. In the straight section in the middle I used a 5" long piece of stainless tubing and cut the hoses to length and clamped them onto the stainless inner support. Working fine so far.
I have a friend with a 65 that was a SB car originally. He is also going to run the BB radiator and when he attempted to bolt the 66/67 BB radiator support into his car he said it did not fit. He cut the mounts off and modified it to his satisfaction. I can't figure that one out. The frames are the same dimension and the bodies are the same dimension. I still think that when he gets it all together the radiator is going to sit too high and possibly interfere with the hood on his car. Of course that's just my opinion, I COULD be wrong.
Rich
Not too much garage engineering required in my case. The support bolted right in. Had to utilize the supports(rods) from the radiator to the center panel supporting the headlamp rollover motors for a BB car. They are different lengths than the SB suports(rods) but were a direct fit when installed.
I am running TPI and the upper hose for the 87 TPI unit was a direct fit from the thermostat housing to the BB Be Cool radiator. The lower hose is now a two-piece consisting of a SB hose from the water pump and a BB hose from the radiator outlet. In the straight section in the middle I used a 5" long piece of stainless tubing and cut the hoses to length and clamped them onto the stainless inner support. Working fine so far.
I have a friend with a 65 that was a SB car originally. He is also going to run the BB radiator and when he attempted to bolt the 66/67 BB radiator support into his car he said it did not fit. He cut the mounts off and modified it to his satisfaction. I can't figure that one out. The frames are the same dimension and the bodies are the same dimension. I still think that when he gets it all together the radiator is going to sit too high and possibly interfere with the hood on his car. Of course that's just my opinion, I COULD be wrong.
Rich
