CrCrzy

I have been checking the archives for a C1 with a hydraulic clutch set-up. All I can find are C3 and C2 conversions. Has anyone with a C1 installed a hydraulic clutch set up in their car?

wmf62

why do you want a hydraulic clutch? they're a pain in the butt to install, and the OEM clutch pedal effort is not uncomfortable.
Bill

Jack60

WHY.......

CrCrzy

two reasons
1. Dad has a bad knee, clutch side

2. My set up is very similar to SilverSlashStreak. I also did a T-5 install and modified a bracket to connect from my factory Z-bar to the 1992 slanted camaro bellhousing and clutch fork. The pedal effort with a stock style 1992 camaro clutch and flywheel is an increase as compared to the stock system. Just looking at the current set up, the clutch fork looks shorter and therefore less mechanical advantage than the original clutch fork. I also have a 1975 Corvette with a T-5 but in this car I used the 1975 bellhousing and clutch fork and pedal effort is minimal.

The really are the only reason that I would convert to a hydraulic set up, that and the slave attachment will be a breese. If I were to do this swap over, I would probably use a mustang T-5 with an adapter plate to the stock bellhousing (Norvalwilhelm in the C3 forum did this to his car). That way I could use all stock clutch components.

Jack60

KEISLER has a hydraulic clutch set up and I'm sure if you Google it, you will find more companys out there.

61iwon

I have a '61 with a Keisler 5 speed and hydraulic clutch setup. My wife says the clutch is hard for her to push in, she doesn't seem to like it.

It won't make the clutch pedal pressure "easy" to push in, by my opinion. Had an automatic in the car before the 5 speed, so I have nothing to compare it to on this one.

Dave

JohnZ

There's no free lunch. If it takes X pounds of force at the end of the clutch fork to depress the clutch fingers, it doesn't matter whether the linkage back to the pedal is hydraulic or mechanical - with the same pedal travel, the force applied to the pedal to release the clutch will be the same with either setup. The only way to make a hydraulic setup require less pedal force is to use a clutch master cylinder with a smaller bore and a LOT more travel (to displace the same amount of fluid).

A better approach is to use an ordinary stock-type diaphragm clutch (LuK, etc.); the whizbang "hot-rod" clutches (Ram, Zoom, B&B 3-finger coil, etc.) will always require more pedal pressure.

Workin On 59

Hi Jupiter60,

I am thinking about the T-5 as well. If you go with the Mustang T-5, where do you get the adapter plate to use the stock bell housing and clutch setup? With that adapter plate does the input shaft and pilot bearing line up where it needs to?

Thanks, Doug

CrCrzy

on the hydraulic set up I was planning on making up the pressure difference by playing with clutch master cylinder/slave cylinder bore ratios. The clutch I have in the car is stock 1992 Camaro.

For the mustang T-5, it is half an inch longer which allows the use of a half inch adapter plate. If you do a search under Norvalwilhelm in the C3 forum, he has details on how he made it. I want to say he even gave coordinates if you wanted to have a machine shop make the plate for you. If I were to do it again, I would have gone this route. Keep the factory bellhousing and not have to drastically modify the trans mount.

Workin On 59

Thanks for the info on the adapter plate.

rj8806

We don't have a hydraulic kit to fit a T5, however, we do have a master cylinder for the C1. It is a 3/4 bore and a 1 1/2" pushrod travel which you will need to know to find a bearing setup that will work with our master.
Let me know if I can be of further assistance.


Richard

CrCrzy

Richard,
Do you have any pictures of installed clutch master cylinders? I looked at your website and only saw the part. Thanks. Jupiter

rj8806

yes, here is a great shot...... if I remember correctly, this is a 57 with a LS 2. Maybe off on the year but it is for sure a C1. Hope this helps and let me know.


Richard

CrCrzy

thank you for the picture, does your clutch master cylinder kit come with the adapter in the picture? How about an actuation rod to the clutch pedal?

Zo62

There seems to be alot of mis information in this thread.

First off if the guy wants a hydraulic clutch, let him don't argue about what a guy wants to do with HIS car.

I have done several similar conversions. In my 62 I put in a 6 speed with hydro. The original saginaw, I put in my model A. I have used several different bearings, and there is a difference. I have had and heard many others haveing problems with the Howe units leaking. I like the Mcleod units and they make one to fit hte Saginaw.

Adjustment is important, but not difficult, nor is the installation (contrary to stated above). If you don't have proper adjustment the bearing will overextend and blow out the seals.

You are correct in being able to adjust pedal tension with master cylinder bore sizing as well as pedal ratio. There is much more adjustment possibilities than a mechanical settup. However remember to make less pedal pressure you need a smaller bore and longer throw which equals more pedal movement which can be tough in an already tight space.

Hope this helps.

Zo62

I don't have a picture on this computer of my master settup, but I used the stock pedals and used a T56 with the master out of an 02 Camaro. The master cylinder mounting plate has a weird angle to it and I had to fab up a bracket to mount it to the firewall. welded a tab onto the stock pedal assembly and it was done.

CrCrzy

Thanks for the post. I don't take it offensively when people try to talk me out of an idea. I do read here on the forum a lot of people who seem skeptical about conversions and what might work and what might not. Hopefully people out there are somewhat like myself and offer these opinions with the best intentions. I am a Mechanical Engineer so I have a natural tendency to tinker and change things. This is one of 3 Corvettes I have and the second one that I did a 5 spd. conversion in. The first car was the 1975 Convertible that I used the stock bellhousing, clutch fork, and z-bar. On this conversion the clutch feel in my opinion is perfect. But you have to consider the clutch acutation system was all designed together and took advantage of leverage. On the 1960 Corvette 5 spd. conversion I used the same clutch assembly as the 1975 Corvette except I used the 1992 Camaro bellhousing and clutch fork. I used the stock 1960 Corvette z-bar with a customized bracket to locate the pivot stud and a customized push rod with heim joint to connect to the clutch fork.The pedal in my opinion is quite a bit stiffer, granted it doesn't bother me too much I am only 25 so my knees haven't seen nearly what my dad's knees have seen. So for the most part I am using all stock components. The only thing that would deviate is a clutch fork designed for a hydraulic clutch. The distance from the pivot location in the bellhousing to the end of the clutch fork is shorter than the 1960 Corvette unit which gives me less leverage. Which brings me back to the original reason reason I wanted a hydraulic clutch master cylinder in the first place. The size of the clutch master cylinder bore as compared to the bore of the slave cylinder will compensate for the shorter moment arm of the hydraulic clutch fork and give me a nice pedal feel. As a comparison, the 1992 Camaro that I removed the transmission from had a very nice, smooth, easy to operate clutch pedal. Thank you for the responses.

rj8806

yes, it comes with the adapter(mounting block) and the pedal pushrod. The master cylinder kit will include the master, reservoir, fill line and the hardware. The adapter(mount block) is designed, in your case, to fit the firewall at the correct angle so that the pedal pushrod connects to the pedal arm in the factory location. Being a mechanical engineer, you know that if the geometry were changed and the pushrod did not connect in the factory location, the pedal would be extremely hard to push.

Typically, hydraulic clutches are more of an advantage to guys who have a TON of power and require a "heavy duty" clutch. Our complete hydraulic kit(which will not fit your T5) does not use an external slave pushing on a fork. It is all internal and uses a hydraulic throw out bearing.

Let me know if I can answer any more questions for you.


Richard

CrCrzy

thanks, for the information. Do you sell the clutch master with mount block and push rod as a kit without the hydraulic throw out bearing? I already have the slave cylinder figured out with the Camaro bellhousing.

rj8806

yes, it is $259.00 and comes with master cylinder, mount block, pushrod, heim joint, reservoir and line all hardware and instructions.


Richard