Mr D.

I went to hang my Bolt On Knock Offs and came up short on the lug nuts gripping the studs. When I put the wheel up to the rotor and I knew the lug stud looked short. Now the directions say the lug nuts are longer and the stud will recess inside the lug not but I feel the stud is way to deep in the lug nut. The directions also say nothing about needing longer lug studs.

I have completed a frame off and replaced all the studs with new ones from a corvette vendor so I assumed they were the correct size.

Here is what I came up with using both a ruler and caliper to measure:

Front Wheel: Stud protrudes beyond the rotor 5/8" or .676, with the lug nut installed I'm getting about 2/8" of stud inside the lug nut.

Rear Wheel: Stud protrudes beyond the rotor 6/8" or .714, with the lug nut installed I'm getting about 3/8" of stud inside the lug nut.

I measured the new studs against the old ones and the new was 1.720 and the old one was 1.920, not sure if .200 will make that much of a difference.

I was thinking maybe the rotor hub area was thicker but both the new and old measure .402 thick.

What it really comes down to is that I have .676 of stud, cover that with .426 of wheel thickness and that leaves me with .25 of threads for the lug nut.

Any idea whats going on? Do I have the wrong length studs?

PS: The studs are seated flush with the back side of the rotor hubs

JohnZ

Sounds like either the wheel or the center piece the spinner threads onto are incorrectly machined; the original lug studs were 1.750" long (from the underside of the head to the end), and those wheels allegedly don't require special lug studs. You need at LEAST the thickness of a regular lug nut plus two threads of thread engagement for safe operation.

wombvette

Sounds like the studs are a little short, but the rule is that if the threads are as deep as the diameter of the bolt, that is the maximum holding power for the installation.

firstgear

I have bolt on knock offs on my 64 and I love em.....from the Virgiinia Vette web site (which is where I got mine from) http://www.virginiavettes.com/wheels.htm

"1963-1966 Direct Bolt Knockoff Wheels
Look just like original Knockoff when installed, yet they attach directly with special lug nuts! "

Nothing wrong with your studs, you need special lug nuts that are supplied with the wheels....at least mine came that way from Virginia Vettes and I believe that there is one supplier to everyone....

I didnt change my studs either...just bolted right on....if your studs are right, then you need the longer lug nuts.

Mr D.

7/16-20 would give me .437, that leave me shy of about .187

This should not be this hard.

Mr D.

I have the longer lug nuts that came with the wheels and fully understand that the stud will not come up through this lug nut. The problem is I'm only grabbing about 2/8" - 3/8" of thread when torqued.

Mr D.

John, do you have the height of a stock lug nut? I threw all the old ones out.

Mr D.

Just on a side note, I have never installed a set of Bolt On Knock Offs so I could be making something out of nothing.

However, it just doesn't pass the sniff test to me and makes the hair on back on my neck stand up.

I will take some pictures tomorrow

jrm5657

If my memory is correct, the direct bolt on knock offs are the same wheel as the 67 bolt ons, they just use a different adapter to hold the spinner and cone. Both wheels do not use a regular lug nut, they use a mag wheel type of lug nut which is recessed into the wheel. The holes in your wheel should be much larger than the stud to allow for the lug nut recess. Sounds like you have the wrong lug nuts, but probably have the correct studs. A picture would help solve the problem.

66BlkBB

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

I believe that 67 Bolt On's are a different animal. They do not have the raised center black that the cone uses to hide the lug nuts. You are correct in that a photo of what he has would be great and give someone an idea of just what his problem is. Post photos if you are able to.

Steve

Tintin

If you install wheels with only 1/4" of the stud inside the nut you will be taking a pretty big risk. If you have only that much you will break the stud at some point, maybe all of them and lose the wheel. How long in total are the studs you installed...? I think you will need at least 5 turns of the nut once threaded to be safe...

Mr D.

I just got back from getting more info on the lug nut problem.

I get 3 complete turns of the lug nut from 0 to torque on the front and 5 turns on the rear. This in my opinion seems unacceptable for proper holding of the wheel.

I would think that the same amount of threads would be required to hold this wheel on as you would use with a stock steel wheel and lug nut (still need to figure out what that number is). The special lug nut is 1.105" long

We already know the studs are the correct length, longer than stock are not required to mount these wheels, rotor thickness is correct, studs are flush with backside of hub and axel. That only leaves the wheel thickness as the suspect item or this is just the way it is. I don't buy that last one, something is not right.

I will post pictures tonight as I'm unable to at work.

toddalin

The shortest mag wheel lug nuts I've seen have 0.5" of threaded length. I would consider this to be about the minimum number of threads to grab for a secure and safe mount (and certainly no less than 7/16" of gripping area). Maybe you could just use a deeper lug nut to grip more threads.

MikeM

You need 7/16" (the diameter of your wheel stud) of thread engagement in the nut with 2-3 threads sticking through. I think it's 20 threads/inch. You do the math. The diameter of the stud/bolt plus 2-3 threads is a standard for most automotive fasteners.

I'm gettin' dizzy readin' this thread.

chrisdev

I just installed a set of bolt on knock offs from Virginia Vettes on my '66about 3 months ago.
I had a similar situation with the lugnuts that were supplied with the wheels. I just wasn't getting enough of the stud threaded into the nut. After staring at it for a while I realized that the back of the wheel was not sitting flush with the rotor because the center opening of the wheel was slightly smaller than the hub. Three of the four wheels were like this. Or perhaps the hubs have expanded after 41 years of mounting and dismounting the steel wheels.
Anyway, using my dremel tool with a polishing stone I polished up the center opening until the wheel would slip onto the hub all the way. After that the lugnuts would seat properly.

Mr D.

Ok, I think were all in agreement we are looking for total sum of the diameter of the stud plus 2 threads.

Stud is 7/16-20 plus 2 threads: 20 threads per inch for .05 per thread, 7/16 diameter or .437, .437 plus 2 threads (.10) = .537 thread grip for proper wheel retention. With me so far?

The "Special" lug nut which is nothing more than a long lug nut is 1.105 long. With the lug nut torqued I have .880 of exposed thread measuring into the lug nut down to the stud. That gives me a total thread grip of only .225 which is .312 short or about 6.24 threads.

I have removed the wheels, swapped them around, pulled the caliper, pulled the rotor, measured everything x 3 times and the math keeps coming up the same.

chrisdev stated he had this problem and was forced to take a dremel tool to the wheels. I paid $1680 for the crap from China and before I do that someone at Corvette America damm well better step up to the plate and talk to me about this. No where in the directions did it say to dremel out the centers. Besides, I have the same problem on the rear but not as bad as I'm .212 short or 4.24 threads.

Here are the pictures I took today. I'm going on vacation tomorrow so this will have to keep for a week but anyone have more input tonight please pass along.

toddalin

Is the seat tapered for the lug nuts? If not, and the hole is ~0.685 - 0.69 in diameter, you could use a standard mag wheel lug nut. (If the seat is not tapered, the lug nuts you have don't seem right as they are made for a tapered seat.)

The lug nut washers come in a couple sizes with 1", 1-1/16", and 1-1/4" outside diameters being the most common. If the seat is not tapered, measure the diameter of the recess to see if one of these will fit.

Alternatively, you can convert a tapered seat to a mag seat with a little machining.


Alternatively, send them back and you can work up a set of these 7"-wide Western Wheels for about $300 complete for all four (with used wheels). For these I can tell you exactly what parts you would need.

66since71

I think you have the wrong lug nuts for that application. The seat is square to the axis of the nut, not tapered as the lug nut appears to be. Also there appears to be plenty of room between the stud and the hole in the wheel to accomodate a long mag wheel lug nut (I'll add an edit in a few minutes with a link to show you what I mean). If you had that kind of nut you could get thread engagement nearly all the way down to the mounting flange, even though much of it would be "below" the surface where the washer for the nut seats.

What is the ID of the holes in the wheel? If it is slightly larger than 0.6875 (11/16), then this is probably the fix??...

edit: I see Toddalin came to the same conclusion... link still to follow.

edit: at Summit; You are looking for long shank lug nuts, as long as possible, but short enough that they won't bottom out before the wheel is bolted on tight. Washers come in a variety of standard outside diameters...
http://store.summitracing.com/egnsea...=KeywordSearch

ctjackster

from your close up photo of the wheel, it would appear you need a stepped lug nut (one with a shank on it), rather than a simple tapered one

I would expect to see something like this for that type of application, but I am no expert:

MikeM

Agree with the others. Your picture looks like it calls for lug nuts that thread between the stud and the wheel. You don't have a tapered seat wheel. Your tapered lug nuts won't work with that design. Where did the lug nuts come from?