GL-4 Transmission Fluid
#1
Drifting
Thread Starter
GL-4 Transmission Fluid
There have been many threads on transmission fluid before but just wanted to share one more for reference.
Was buying something else when I saw on the shelf three bottles side-by-side of 85W90W fluid with the first labeled GL-4, the second GL-5, and the third GL5+.
Reading the backs, only the GL-4 said protects copper, brass and non-ferrous metals used in synchros.
Bought a bottle and am now torn on replacing the fluid or not. First time I ever came across an only GL-4 rating. The GL-5 stated it met the MIL-L2105 too but did not claim to protect certain metals.
Was buying something else when I saw on the shelf three bottles side-by-side of 85W90W fluid with the first labeled GL-4, the second GL-5, and the third GL5+.
Reading the backs, only the GL-4 said protects copper, brass and non-ferrous metals used in synchros.
Bought a bottle and am now torn on replacing the fluid or not. First time I ever came across an only GL-4 rating. The GL-5 stated it met the MIL-L2105 too but did not claim to protect certain metals.
#2
Melting Slicks
Use the GL4, as has been hashed around before (search the archives). My local Advance Auto even has manual trans fluid, rated GL4! GM dealers sell Syncromesh fluid also.
GL5 is for rears and has additives that some think will attack the brass syncros (with heat and time)
GL5 is for rears and has additives that some think will attack the brass syncros (with heat and time)
#3
Le Mans Master
Anybody selling Pennzoil should be able to get you the Synchromesh fluid. We have it at the NAPA I work at.
Rich
Rich
#4
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There have been many threads on transmission fluid before but just wanted to share one more for reference.
Was buying something else when I saw on the shelf three bottles side-by-side of 85W90W fluid with the first labeled GL-4, the second GL-5, and the third GL5+.
Reading the backs, only the GL-4 said protects copper, brass and non-ferrous metals used in synchros.
Bought a bottle and am now torn on replacing the fluid or not. First time I ever came across an only GL-4 rating. The GL-5 stated it met the MIL-L2105 too but did not claim to protect certain metals.
Was buying something else when I saw on the shelf three bottles side-by-side of 85W90W fluid with the first labeled GL-4, the second GL-5, and the third GL5+.
Reading the backs, only the GL-4 said protects copper, brass and non-ferrous metals used in synchros.
Bought a bottle and am now torn on replacing the fluid or not. First time I ever came across an only GL-4 rating. The GL-5 stated it met the MIL-L2105 too but did not claim to protect certain metals.
Plasticman
#5
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St. Jude Donor '05, '09, '15
I could not find GL4 around here in quarts. I ended up getting Pennzoil
GL4 from the local Jiffy Lub. They have it in bulk. I had the guy pump a few quarts into a clean plastic jug.
GL4 from the local Jiffy Lub. They have it in bulk. I had the guy pump a few quarts into a clean plastic jug.
#9
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http://www.valvoline.com/pages/produ...sp?product=114
However, I see that on their website, they do not list the additive package for that product, but do for their Synthetic Gear Lube. That spec shows that it contain sulfur (which as I understand it, is the main additive that eats brass). So I am wondering if the info that Bill received was correct.
http://www.valvoline.com/products/Sy...ear%20Oils.pdf
The Valvoline has worked fine for 2 years, but for the long term I am concerned that the GL5 will damage the brass. I will need to "explore" the GL4 further.
Note that we were told that the Mopar version of the MY6 (the A-833) can use ATF, but these old trans are "loose" and leak a drop or 2 with the heavy gear oil. The ATF would probably need a refill once a month!
Never did find out what lube GM recommended for them.
Thanks,
John
#10
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St. Jude Donor '07
the info i received from Valvoline about the compatibility of their GL5 lube was by email (don't have that email anymore, but i contacted just about every lube manufacturer) directly from Valvoline; not sure what else i can say...
as i remember asking the local GM dealer, GM used ATF....
Bill
as i remember asking the local GM dealer, GM used ATF....
Bill
#11
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St. Jude Donor '07
Valvoline speaks...
i received the following email from Valvoline..
Valvoline products meet both GL-4 and GL-5 specifications, meaning that our gear oil products are completely safe for yellow metals, (brass, copper, etc.).
To: VWEBMAIL@Ashland
cc:
Subject: Site feedback from Valvoline.com
The following person submitted a question or comment via the Contact us form of type Other Product
First Name: Bill
Last Name: Fleckenstein
Comments:
i understand some formulations of transmission lube can damage brass parts, such as synchro rings. can your GL5 lube be used without affecting the brass parts?
Bill
Valvoline products meet both GL-4 and GL-5 specifications, meaning that our gear oil products are completely safe for yellow metals, (brass, copper, etc.).
To: VWEBMAIL@Ashland
cc:
Subject: Site feedback from Valvoline.com
The following person submitted a question or comment via the Contact us form of type Other Product
First Name: Bill
Last Name: Fleckenstein
Comments:
i understand some formulations of transmission lube can damage brass parts, such as synchro rings. can your GL5 lube be used without affecting the brass parts?
Bill
#12
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Bill,
As per my e-mail back to you, I still am not satisfied with an e-mail that "says" it is OK. If they use sulfur in the Synthetic version, they probably use it in the mineral version. If so, how do they account for that?
Their packaging does not say it meets GL4 specs, nor does their website.
It would be nice to have something more than just an e-mail, and they should be proud to print it on the packaging if it is so.
Thanks for checking into it.
Plasticman
As per my e-mail back to you, I still am not satisfied with an e-mail that "says" it is OK. If they use sulfur in the Synthetic version, they probably use it in the mineral version. If so, how do they account for that?
Their packaging does not say it meets GL4 specs, nor does their website.
It would be nice to have something more than just an e-mail, and they should be proud to print it on the packaging if it is so.
Thanks for checking into it.
Plasticman
#13
Pro
Bill,
As per my e-mail back to you, I still am not satisfied with an e-mail that "says" it is OK. If they use sulfur in the Synthetic version, they probably use it in the mineral version. If so, how do they account for that?
Their packaging does not say it meets GL4 specs, nor does their website.
It would be nice to have something more than just an e-mail, and they should be proud to print it on the packaging if it is so.
Thanks for checking into it.
Plasticman
As per my e-mail back to you, I still am not satisfied with an e-mail that "says" it is OK. If they use sulfur in the Synthetic version, they probably use it in the mineral version. If so, how do they account for that?
Their packaging does not say it meets GL4 specs, nor does their website.
It would be nice to have something more than just an e-mail, and they should be proud to print it on the packaging if it is so.
Thanks for checking into it.
Plasticman
I've just gone thru all this Gear Oil Additive Spec stuff when installing a new AGE Supercase Muncie. A sheet came with the Gearbox from them
quote
"Assemblies are shipped without oil. We recommend filling your new transmission with a good quality SAE90 gear lubricant meeting API specifications 'GL-4' or 'GL-5 AND MT1'. DO NOT use GL-5 lubricants without the MT-1 label; the EP additives in unmodified GL-5 lubricants have been found do damage the bronze used in bushings and synchronizer rings."
I rang them up and had an informative chat as to make/type/grade of oil. From that conversation I ended up putting using Pennzoil 80W/90 EP it has both these specs. From what I learnt, the MT1 spec was created for just this problem with bronze parts in gearboxes. I believe it was also an issue in large truck manual gearboxes. I figure the MT stands for Manual Transmission
#14
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Nev,
Thanks for the info!
Here is another thread (diff. forum) that is along the same lines, but stated that the additive that causes the problem for yellow metals, only becomes corrosive above 250 F degrees. I guess I don't have to worry as much as I do!
Here is the blurb:
""A GL-4 or, to a greater extent GL-5, lubricants can, if not properly
formulated, become corrosive to yellow metals if the lubricant temperature
exceeds 250 degrees F. The API recently came out with a new specification to
address this possibility. It's called MT-1. You'll find that AMSOIL gear
lubes all meet this new spec. therefore do not attack yellow metals. Two
things work in your favor if AMSOIL Synthetic gear lube is used. 1. AMSOIL
will run cooler, reducing the possible high temperature situation. 2. AMSOIL
gear lubes meet MT-1, therefore will not attack yellow metal even if the
temperature does climb to this extremely high 250 degree mark.""
And yes, the Valvoline Gear Oil that we have been using is rated MT-1.
Plasticman
Thanks for the info!
Here is another thread (diff. forum) that is along the same lines, but stated that the additive that causes the problem for yellow metals, only becomes corrosive above 250 F degrees. I guess I don't have to worry as much as I do!
Here is the blurb:
""A GL-4 or, to a greater extent GL-5, lubricants can, if not properly
formulated, become corrosive to yellow metals if the lubricant temperature
exceeds 250 degrees F. The API recently came out with a new specification to
address this possibility. It's called MT-1. You'll find that AMSOIL gear
lubes all meet this new spec. therefore do not attack yellow metals. Two
things work in your favor if AMSOIL Synthetic gear lube is used. 1. AMSOIL
will run cooler, reducing the possible high temperature situation. 2. AMSOIL
gear lubes meet MT-1, therefore will not attack yellow metal even if the
temperature does climb to this extremely high 250 degree mark.""
And yes, the Valvoline Gear Oil that we have been using is rated MT-1.
Plasticman
Last edited by Plasticman; 02-20-2008 at 12:26 PM.
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I have a 5gal pump dispenser (got it from an old gas station that closed) and buy GL4 in gallon jugs from NAPA.
#16
Race Director
Yes, you want the MT-1 designation. Be sure to check the label as even some brands such as Valvoline, Pennzoil and others sell GL-5 both with and without the MT-1 properties.
#17
Premium Supporting Vendor
Most AMSOIL gear lubes meet both the GL-5 and MT-1 specifications. Probably the best is the diff fluid that I use in my C5 Z06 track use only diff and the diff in my 06 CTS-V diff - a good fluid:
AMSOIL Severe Gear Extreme Pressure Synthetic 75w90
AMSOIL Severe Gear Extreme Pressure Synthetic 75w90
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AMSOIL Catalog
#18
There have been many threads on transmission fluid before but just wanted to share one more for reference.
Was buying something else when I saw on the shelf three bottles side-by-side of 85W90W fluid with the first labeled GL-4, the second GL-5, and the third GL5+.
Reading the backs, only the GL-4 said protects copper, brass and non-ferrous metals used in synchros.
Bought a bottle and am now torn on replacing the fluid or not. First time I ever came across an only GL-4 rating. The GL-5 stated it met the MIL-L2105 too but did not claim to protect certain metals.
Was buying something else when I saw on the shelf three bottles side-by-side of 85W90W fluid with the first labeled GL-4, the second GL-5, and the third GL5+.
Reading the backs, only the GL-4 said protects copper, brass and non-ferrous metals used in synchros.
Bought a bottle and am now torn on replacing the fluid or not. First time I ever came across an only GL-4 rating. The GL-5 stated it met the MIL-L2105 too but did not claim to protect certain metals.
C2Bill
#19
Race Director
John,
I've just gone thru all this Gear Oil Additive Spec stuff when installing a new AGE Supercase Muncie. A sheet came with the Gearbox from them
quote
"Assemblies are shipped without oil. We recommend filling your new transmission with a good quality SAE90 gear lubricant meeting API specifications 'GL-4' or 'GL-5 AND MT1'. DO NOT use GL-5 lubricants without the MT-1 label; the EP additives in unmodified GL-5 lubricants have been found do damage the bronze used in bushings and synchronizer rings."
I rang them up and had an informative chat as to make/type/grade of oil. From that conversation I ended up putting using Pennzoil 80W/90 EP it has both these specs. From what I learnt, the MT1 spec was created for just this problem with bronze parts in gearboxes. I believe it was also an issue in large truck manual gearboxes. I figure the MT stands for Manual Transmission
I've just gone thru all this Gear Oil Additive Spec stuff when installing a new AGE Supercase Muncie. A sheet came with the Gearbox from them
quote
"Assemblies are shipped without oil. We recommend filling your new transmission with a good quality SAE90 gear lubricant meeting API specifications 'GL-4' or 'GL-5 AND MT1'. DO NOT use GL-5 lubricants without the MT-1 label; the EP additives in unmodified GL-5 lubricants have been found do damage the bronze used in bushings and synchronizer rings."
I rang them up and had an informative chat as to make/type/grade of oil. From that conversation I ended up putting using Pennzoil 80W/90 EP it has both these specs. From what I learnt, the MT1 spec was created for just this problem with bronze parts in gearboxes. I believe it was also an issue in large truck manual gearboxes. I figure the MT stands for Manual Transmission
#20
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St. Jude Donor '07
FWIW, to add to my previous input...
i gave up using any 'normal' gear lube in my MY6, i was getting synchro clash when downshifting; i changed to ATF, as originally used by Mopar & GM, and have never had another problem.
Bill
i gave up using any 'normal' gear lube in my MY6, i was getting synchro clash when downshifting; i changed to ATF, as originally used by Mopar & GM, and have never had another problem.
Bill