93Polo

I've always read the same. Haven't the newer kits been offered in longer wheel bases to help with stability?

vetrod62

I hear you, The above levity aside, The Cheetah has about the same HP/weight combo as my red 62 vette (1000HP/2800lbs). Driving it full-out is a blast. But you have to drive it with your brain and there is zero room for error.

jimgessner

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Th...Racing_History

WIKIPEDIA has an excellent history on the car.

FRED YEAKEL owns a real Cheetah, the #8 ALLAN GREEN Chevrolet car. Fred is a long time friend. JERRY ENTIN also owned and raced a Cheetah in 1965. I have recently met Jerry three years ago. See Fred's website here. http://www.cheetahcars.com/index.htm

Both gentlemen will be at the RIVERSIDE RACEWAY MUSEUM ''LEGENDS V'' event March 22-23, 2013 at 815 Marlboro Ave., Riverside, California honoring BOB BONDURANT this year. SEE http://legendsofriverside.com ENJOY THE GREAT HISTORY. JOIN US IN RIVERSIDE NEXT WEEK

sub006

The Cheetahs had the engine set back far enough they were almost a front mid-engined car. Perhaps the short wheelbase combined with the high power-to-weight ratio made them so easy to spin?

289 Cobras, carrying the engine weight farther forward, were more likely to understeer than oversteer. That old, simple, chalked on the floor English frame was much more forgiving than the Ford computer-designed 427 replacement.

MiguelsC2

I am not saying you are wrong about the Cheeta.

But think how many races were won with 911 Porsches. They just take a skilled driver.

You haven't lived until you have brought a 911 to the brink on a curvy, tree lined, 2 lane road and lived to tell about it.

When in doubt, no brakes! Floor it!

sub006

With bicycle-width front tires on skinny wires it's even more of a thrill ride.

TCracingCA

Let's really make it scary! We will be over this weekend and we will remove the brakes and replace with a true spindle wheel rims and put the bicycle tires on those. And let's add suicide doors and a suicide steering wheel ****!

The modern mods on the #8 Cheetah is that they put weight in the front frame tube bars to improve the balance similar to what Porsche went thru before they finally figured out about lengthening the wheelbase! Also I don't consider the engine being set back, because what put it where it was was due to removal of a driveshaft and tranny yoke to rear diff yoke connection with just a u-joint!

ohiovet

Ruth Eng. had a "new" Cheetah at the Mecum Indy auction and it looked pretty good.
But, to get in and out of them you have to be pretty limber. The seat is far below the sill plate. I didn't even try.
There is also a original Cheetah in Cincinnati.
There is also a guy in Columbus, Ohio who has a pretty nice new one with a LS engine in it.
I also spoke to another guy in the Columbus area who had a Bill Thomas dual airhorn Rochester (C1) unit for sale last year. He ran it on a 62 (I think) and said it ran fine.
I probably should have bought it, but I didn't..

sahhas

in doing some searches today i came across the "Cheetah" race/sports car.
wow, what a cool car.
i remember seeing pics of these as a kid and probably confused it w/ a C3 corvette (w/ the long hood!).

i will agree it sort of looks like a weird conglomeration of a jaguar/shelby daytona/C2 corvette....and honestly sort of looks like a smooth/sleek version of the C3 corvette!
interesting to read the history of them....cool looking car, probably not real practical for everyday use (well it was built as a hot rod/race car)...interesting the original guy was trying to develop it as a more street friendly car, but it never happened.....

63Corvette

sub006

Just enjoyed re-reading this thread. As a customer of the original Bill Thomas shop in Anaheim, I take exception to the description "burned to the ground".

The Julianna Street building was/is cinder block, which withstood the fire. While many valuable cars, parts, tools and tooling were lost in the 1965 fire (the roof probably fell in), the building was cleaned up, restored, and Bill was again busy with engine building, dyno tuning, drag and road-race prep, etc. for several more years. So it would be more correct IMO to say the CONTENTS were destroyed, burned beyond usefulness.

I've seen sketches online of his proposed second-generation larger, roomier, more comfortable and more gracefully-styled "street" Cheetah, which was to have had comforts like opening windows, A/C (and a big-block option!). I seem to recall the beginnings of a prototype being lost in the fire.

But that program and the interest and investment necessary to make it happen must have died anyway due to the lack of publicity and interest 100 race-winning production first-gen Cheetahs could have generated. And Chevy no doubt would not have looked kindly on that kind of competition for the existing dual-purpose Corvette.

The Anaheim building still stands today. The garage doors have been replaced by walls, so it's probably used for office space.

ohiovet

Attached is a picture of a C2 fuel unit which was for sale at the Lakeland Show. Claimed to be a Bill Thomas unit.
Looked very nice.
Recently there was one for sale around Columbus, Ohio.

TCracingCA

it could get very time consuming!

I probably have more info on Cheetahs than anyone short of Jr. and I have been waiting for him to write a book for his Father and the Cheetah and everything else from the special Corvair builds, to the NASCAR, development, his tuning of FI, his Don Steves support chapter, his Nickey Chevrolet deal, etc etc etc.

My preferred research is on racers like Cheetah, McLaren, Chaparral, Porsche 904 thru 917, Ferrari 250 LM thru 512, other USRRC/Can Am cars, FIA racers and general specials, SR's of the period etc.

The wildness of the Cheetah was the front to rear weight ratio and the tires in the front would tend to float as the back was hooking up. Some people like the Yeakels have filled front tubing with lead to counter this. The engine set was so radical in relationship to the wheelbase and the bellhousing/tranny compromising to the drivers compartment, the connection direct with a u-joint to the diff put weight rearwards. PS the Yeakels had the Allen grant body stashed away for safe keeping (the green one), and were running the chassis under the red #8 guise for the longest time! The have put the green one, back on the chassis!

I like your accuracy of statements Sub006 always and in general! Yes what mixes up the numbers was what in the way of cars vice chassis being built were lost. I have a number of pictures of the after the fire burned up inside! I had those pictures up on the interest along time ago, and they probably now are on other websites to view! I get entertained by pictures I shared and how they populate thru the internet over time! I was in the PI when the volcano errupted 1991 and my pictures mostly from my little portable camera are what still pops up on many different peoples sites, kind of cool to find stuff associated with me immortalized!

PS I still have five of those slot cars, 2 scratch built up into detailed 1/24 models! I have about 22 Cheetah cars total in my house!

Kerrmudgeon

I love seeing pics of the "other cat" but nothing compares to seeing or hearing one run.....



And finally, the EVOLUTION cheetah complete with 65 Stinger hood, and a lovely spokesperson explaining it.....

Driving the Evolution.....are they still in business? Anyone?

Dr L-88

Bruce,

Do you remember how much the unit at the show in Lakeland was?

I have the one the was for sale near Columbus. Got it with my 64. It's in my avatar.

ohiovet

Rex,
I believe the one at Lakeland was priced at $12,000.00.
Was the one at Columbus around $10,000.00?
Bruce B

Dr L-88

Yes it was, about 2 years ago. The seller tried to sell his 64 WITH the dual air meter unit and then he tried to sell just the unit. I bought the car AND the FI unit. Here's that unit on my engine.

sub006

Thanks for your kind words, TCR. I try to contribute my selected little So Cal Corvette scene reminisces, memories and opinions where I think they may help fill in the total picture.

Regarding Bill Thomas Sr., it is easy to mix him up with (Pasadena-based?) auto performance book author "California Bill". AIR they were two different people, but correct me if I'm wrong.

In the absence of an official Bill Thomas biography, I first noticed publicity by about 1961 of his Corvair performance improvements, most notably his four-carb mod. AIR he would ship you a finished manifold in exchange for your stocker and a reasonable amount of $$$. I hope GM compensated him in some way when they made his design standard on production cars. They DID work with him on bigger projects, but that mostly died with GM's racing ban.

I think he was the first person to drop a 327/360 hp FI engine into a new 1962 Chevy Nova. Zero to sixty was 5.2 seconds, faster than a '62 'Vette with the same engine, which took 5.5 seconds AIR. He later offered a rather expensive but very complete kit for this swap, including extra-wide steel wheels, HD brakes, etc. I'd be interested to see a content and price comparison with the similar Chevy Parts Dept. offering, if they weren't identical. And of course later on there was Bad Bascomb, a part-fiberglass Nova SS hardtop with FI and C2 IRS, and Bad Bascomb II, which I remember faintly as a second-gen ('68 or later) fiberglass sort-of funny car.

His SBC and 409 tuning achievements were less well known, but his services were highly valued by pro and amateur racers.

I find it amazing how he was able to keep so many project ***** in the air and deliver on time until the double whammy of the fire and GM's withdrawal from racing. If not for those developments, Bill Thomas might have made Carroll Shelby look like an also-ran. He and Zora could have engineered Chevy domination of racing from Le Mans to NASCAR to SCCA.

Was GM correct in pulling the plug on factory-backed performance? They certainly left a void for Ford to fill the following year!

Jim Hall's Chaparrals were a bright light for Chevy fans in those dark Blue Oval-dominated days. And when Roger Penske and Mark Donohue got working on a Trans Am Camaro, maybe their comparatively "underdog" image really struck the politically-correct "independent racer" note GM could live with.

But the late Bill Thomas remains a proven engineering genius, team motivator, good businessman and a VERY deserving big-time might-have-been whose accomplishments all Corvette people should know!

sahhas

thanks to all for posting those vids above.
what a f***ing cool car! man that thing sounds soooooooo good!!!
i may have to rewatch them tomorrow!!!!
fun info to read!!!! love this car!
sad thing: i probably wouldn't fit in one (6-4) and probably can't afford one either!!!! oh well, it is fun to dream!!!

Todd H.

It's great to see this post revived. Bill Thomas' and Don Edmunds' Cheetah might have become so much more were it not for Chevrolet's and GM's convoluted path with racing. The car, like Grand Sports, never got a chance to grow and evolve. Whether you think they look nice or not, there's a lot to like about the few cars that they did build.

I started a thread about seeking info on Bill Thomas in October. I'm more convinced now that he modified my '57 FI Corvette when it was at CS Mead Chevrolet in Pasadena when it was new. Bill was the Service Manager then, and I think he performed a variety of mods on my car and then raced it. I also think my car's original 4360 FI unit ended up on Mick Swezey's very famous racer after Bill performed his trademark cut it in half and hog it out modification and they flipped the units when Mick's car arrived while mine was still there.

Brilliant and enigmatic guy that he was, Bill Thomas should be held in high regard in the Corvette hobby. Bill was among the few people outside GM (like Smokey Yunick) that helped establish the Corvette as a serious performer in the later '50s and early '60s, right after the car had almost been discontinued. There should be a book and/or a movie about him.